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Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-21
I have the second edition of the book. The keyword he uses is collect but I looked in dictionaries and online and couldn't really find any reason why this would be collect. I found a lot of responses for bow with hands clasped. Not really sure where interpretation came from either. Which keyword should I use? Or just remember that it's used for names?
Kanji 2263 揖 - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-21
"collect" in the sense of "come together" or "assemble". Although I've never actually seen that character used and I don't recognize the words the Koujien gives for it, so I'm not sure how accurate the meaning is.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-21
Yeah I couldn't really find that much on this character. Thanks for the help.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Katsuo - 2010-07-22
Could be worth learning for Nagoya residents as it's used in the name of one of the rivers there, 揖斐川 (いびがわ).
Should you be walking along this river, make a point of bowing to everyone with your hands clasped, while simultaneously sticking a finger in your mouth so hard that it pops out your ear.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-22
Cool. Sometimes I feel that while I'm learning this kanji it is only used in one place or one word and stuff. It's gonna be a little tough I think after I finish RTK3 figuring out which kanji is used for words and which for names etc.
>.<;
Kanji 2263 揖 - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-22
From what I've seen of RTK3, a good number of the kanji are extremely rare. I would be tempted to recommend not to use RTK3 at all, just to learn the kanji you need from reading (even if there are some semi-common kanji in RTK3).
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-22
I plan to take the 漢字検定２級 in a few years so I wanna learn them while I have the time now and stuff. If I just wanted to get by I would just do RTK1 and not really worry about RTK3. Do you know a good place to find out which kanji is used mainly in names and other things like that? I can look through the RTK3 book I guess but I was wondering if there was an online source that you knew of.
Kanji 2263 揖 - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-22
I don't know of any firm list (the Jinmei-you list isn't reliable because some of those kanji are commonly used outside of names as well).
The 2-kyuu only has Jouyou kanji on it, which are all (IIRC) covered in RTK1.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Mushi - 2010-07-22
yudantaiteki Wrote:The 2-kyuu only has Jouyou kanji on it, which are all (IIRC) covered in RTK1.Must've been a typo - probably spleenlol is planning on taking 1-pre!
Kanji 2263 揖 - Katsuo - 2010-07-23
yudantaiteki Wrote:I would be tempted to recommend not to use RTK3 at all, just to learn the kanji you need from reading (even if there are some semi-common kanji in RTK3).I finished RTK3 about three years ago. It was worth it for me, but of course people's situations and interests vary. As a rough rule of thumb I'd only suggest it to those who have both reached an intermediate level of Japanese and who also enjoy learning kanji using the RTK method. Sometimes I check out the latest posts in the "I just finished RTK1, please congratulate me" thread, and see many saying "now for RTK3..." and wonder if I should post the suggestion above.
spleenlol Wrote:I plan to take the 漢字検定２級 in a few yearsAs you may know, the Joyo kanji list has been revised this year. Those changes will presumably be reflected in the KanKen from next year or so. For level 2 it will probably be useful to know the new kanji added to the Joyo list, so rather than RTK3 I'd suggest studying the supplement to RTK1 that Heisig recently released (details and download link in this thread).
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-23
Mushi Wrote:Yeah that's what I meant. I wanna take 1 but that will be a lot of studying. But I think that would be cool to actually say that I passed level 1yudantaiteki Wrote:The 2-kyuu only has Jouyou kanji on it, which are all (IIRC) covered in RTK1.Must've been a typo - probably spleenlol is planning on taking 1-pre!
Katsuo Wrote:I did hear that some new ones were coming out but I didn't know they were out already. It's cool that Heisig gave that too us. Thanks Katsuo. I think I might actually continue with RTK3 and finish that first and then roll back and do those supplement. I'm in a groove now with RTK3 and don't wanna stopyudantaiteki Wrote:spleenlol Wrote:I plan to take the 漢字検定２級 in a few yearsAs you may know, the Joyo kanji list has been revised this year. Those changes will presumably be reflected in the KanKen from next year or so. For level 2 it will probably be useful to know the new kanji added to the Joyo list, so rather than RTK3 I'd suggest studying the supplement to RTK1 that Heisig recently released (details and download link in this thread).
haha
Kanji 2263 揖 - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-23
1 is nearly impossible; there's so much useless random junk you have to know for that level that I doubt I will ever attempt it. 2 is my goal, and jun-1 would be sort of my "dream" goal that I probably won't do.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-23
how much stuff is on level 1?
I know there are 6k kanji, 4-char idioms, 当て字, and place name stuff.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Mushi - 2010-07-23
spleenlol Wrote:how much stuff is on level 1?Actually, Yudan and I were referring not to level 1, but pre-1, or 準1級, which I think has about 3000 characters?
I know there are 6k kanji, 4-char idioms, 当て字, and place name stuff.
I understand that Kanken is an inexpensive and quickly administered test, so have you considered taking the lower levels to warm up? For example, like Level 4 this year, Level 3 next year, and Level 2 the year after that?
(Currently, I wouldn't stand a chance if I was administered Level 9. I'm still only in the middle of RTK1.)
Kanji 2263 揖 - Katsuo - 2010-07-24
Most levels of the KanKen cost 1,800円 to enter, but the top three are considerably more expensive – presumably they are harder to set and mark.
On passing you can paste your photo here. Amazingly some elementary schoolchildren get through J1.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-24
Mushi Wrote:Yeah I think that's what I would do. Try and start at 4 and then take 3 then 2 then pre then 1. I'm kinda just looking ahead to what I wanna study and stuff after RTK3. Since I'm just learning the kanji at a pretty good rate I wanna keep going and might as well just learn all of the kanji for kanken level 1 while I'm at it. Even if I'm about 5 years away from taking it. It would be good review for me.spleenlol Wrote:how much stuff is on level 1?Actually, Yudan and I were referring not to level 1, but pre-1, or 準1級, which I think has about 3000 characters?
I know there are 6k kanji, 4-char idioms, 当て字, and place name stuff.
I understand that Kanken is an inexpensive and quickly administered test, so have you considered taking the lower levels to warm up? For example, like Level 4 this year, Level 3 next year, and Level 2 the year after that?
Kanji 2263 揖 - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-24
I really don't recommend the Kanken for people who don't have a decent level of Japanese already because a lot of the things on there are not that important in the grand scheme of learning Japanese. I think it's much better to focus on doing what you really want to do with Japanese and do the Kanken as a side project when you're better. They test words that are semi-obscure for native speakers and a lot of things that native speakers don't know without studying; this is true even on some of the lower levels of the test.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-25
yudantaiteki Wrote:I really don't recommend the Kanken for people who don't have a decent level of Japanese already because a lot of the things on there are not that important in the grand scheme of learning Japanese. I think it's much better to focus on doing what you really want to do with Japanese and do the Kanken as a side project when you're better. They test words that are semi-obscure for native speakers and a lot of things that native speakers don't know without studying; this is true even on some of the lower levels of the test.Yeah, that's some good advice. I haven't really planned out totally what I'm going to do but by the end of this year I want to finish KO2001 and then after that do the Core 6000. I will finish UBJG this October and I feel like by the time I finish the Core 6000 I will be okay. My speaking will be poor but hopefully I'll be in Japan by next August doing JET so that way I can practice my speaking. Do you have any tips on where to go after finishing KO2001 and/or Core 6000? I was just going to learn vocab for the JLPT and mostly watch tv/movies to get my listening speed up and just talk to my friends in Japanese.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Tzadeck - 2010-07-25
You should do KO2001, Core 6,000, and UBJG before you do RTK3. It's just my personal opinion of course, so take it with a grain of salt. I've always thought that only after you are at at least an intermediate level will you realize how much you need or don't need the kanji in RTK3. You'll also realize in what ways RTK helped you, and in which ways it didn't.
This isn't a game of numbers, it's about learning a language.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Thora - 2010-07-26
Back to 揖 for a moment:
spleenlol: About the RTK keyword, Kanjigen gives the following meanings for 揖 (it oftens includes archaic meanings):
1. the 2-hand prayer bow thing, 揖譲
2. putting one's hands together to scoop up water
3. gathering or collecting a bunch of stuff together
So you can see a link between joining hands and collecting.
But why use 'collect' as the keyword (or include the kanji at all for that matter)? If 揖斐川 is the only word it's used in, maybe the river name had something to do with the way the rivers running together ... or collecting water at the river?? In other words, I'm not sure I'd bother learning this kanji. If RTK3 includes kanji used only in proper nouns, it'd be nice if it made a note of that.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Thora - 2010-07-26
I was still curious about 揖. I'd never seen it. So I looked it up and ended up rather sidetracked. lol So... in case anyone's interested (in which case it wouldn't have been a complete waste of my time
), here's what I learned and my questions: Kenkyuusha only gives 一揖 (shallow bow), but I think it means the same as 会釈 which far far more common. Is 一揖 really used? Another word (found only in the 国語 dictionaries) is 揖譲 (one meaning: joining hands in front the chest and bowing deferentially).
I wondered if this is the word for that gesture used when visiting a temple or the greeting used by some martial arts practitioners in Japan when they meet each other (eg. Shorinji Kempo). But it turns out that's called 合掌. 合掌礼 is put one's hands together and bow slightly. 合掌して一礼する
According to the dictionary, 揖譲 is a greeting used in ancient China that involves clasping hands out in front of chest and moving them up and down. So I'm assuming Japanese don't really use 揖譲. Is that right?
It was interesting to read that another meaning of 揖譲 is to undertake something peacefully without arms or coercion, because one practitioner of shorinji kempo explains 合掌礼 (gassho rei) as follows (no idea if it's correct):
Quote:The Shorinji Kempo tradition of gassho rei is the same as the western tradition of shaking hands; it is to show that you carry no weapon and, by extension, therefore come in peace. In medieval Europe, knights would not just briefly clasp each others' hands in the ritualistic handshake we use today; they would hold each others' hands throughout their conversation to ensure that the other couldn't draw his sword first. Gassho rei is the same. To place both palms together, you can't be holding anything.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Katsuo - 2010-07-26
@Thora. I showed the character to a native speaker and just from seeing 揖 in isolation she remembered the river (揖斐川). However she didn't recognise any of the compounds in your (very interesting) posts. Of course that's a sample of only one native speaker, though.
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-26
@Tzadeck Thanks for the advice but I'm already almost halfway into RTK3 so I think I'ma just finish it. I'm doing KO2001 & UBJG along with it. I do 30 new cards of RTK3, 3 pages of UBJG, and then however many card of KO2001 until I'm tired for the day. O.O
@Thora Thanks for all of that info! With all of those compounds I am really not sure where he got collect from still. Bowing or something of the like makes more sense to me.
@Katsuo I can ask some of my friends who are native speakers as well but I think I'll get the same response as you. I almost think it would be better to make sure that I know that it belongs 揖斐川 than to think of it as the keyword bow with arms clasped.
Kanji 2263 揖 - Thora - 2010-07-26
Thanks Katsuo - one person is good enough for me. So now, when I need to write 揖斐川, I'll think about going to the 'river' to wash, collecting water in my cupped hands to bring it up to my mouth and ears. It needs to be done evenly or else my half-clean face won't be 'beautifully symmetrically patterned' (斐). Too bad it isn't a word I'll ever use...
Kanji 2263 揖 - spleenlol - 2010-07-27
I asked my friends and only one knew it from 揖斐川. He said a lot of japanese don't know how to read it though. And they don't use it. The others didn't know how to read it or knew what it was lol. So I think it's safe to say make sure you know that it's from 揖斐川 and you should be fine.