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+--- Thread: For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog (/thread-5965.html)
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - caivano - 2010-12-01
Has anyone had any luck finding any contemporary native Japanese novels in professional audiobook form? There are some here http://www.febe.jp/content/all_502.html but not that many that look good.
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - nest0r - 2010-12-01
caivano Wrote:Has anyone had any luck finding any contemporary native Japanese novels in professional audiobook form? There are some here http://www.febe.jp/content/all_502.html but not that many that look good.http://sn.im/qmjz7kv7 - Here's something short; there might be a translation of it in Read Real Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=95243#pid95243), but I wouldn't know because I don't what you're talking about and never heard of that book. Do not replace 'sn.im' with 'tinyurl.com'.
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - caivano - 2010-12-02
thanks, I've read a Goth by that guy, was pretty good.
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - buonaparte - 2010-12-02
Generally speaking, I don't believe in General Discussions (I DO believe in sharing resources), but this seems to be worth reading:
How can I learn a language quickly from novels?
http://languagefixation.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/how-can-i-learn-a-language-quickly-from-novels/
Some legal Japanese audiobooks:
http://audio.shosai.ne.jp/
http://www.kotonoha.co.jp/title/listen_index.html
http://homepage2.nifty.com/to-saga/roudoku2.htm
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - nest0r - 2010-12-02
buonaparte Wrote:Generally speaking, I don't believe in General Discussions (I DO believe in sharing resources), but this seems to be worth reading:I believe in 'general discussions' strongly. They lead to the evolution of self-study and development of resources. ^_-
How can I learn a language quickly from novels?
http://languagefixation.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/how-can-i-learn-a-language-quickly-from-novels/
Some legal Japanese audiobooks:
http://audio.shosai.ne.jp/
http://www.kotonoha.co.jp/title/listen_index.html
http://homepage2.nifty.com/to-saga/roudoku2.htm
For some reason I never bothered following Gabrielatos' references and merely referenced them instead, but the other day I followed up on those links and found some newer stuff by Tom Cobb, et al. Seems like they're like-minded and on the ball.
COMPUTING THE VOCABULARY DEMANDS OF L2 READING
http://llt.msu.edu/vol11num3/cobb/default.html or
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.131.4032&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Linguistic computing can make two important contributions to second language (L2) reading instruction. One is to resolve longstanding research issues that are based on an insufficiency of data for the researcher, and the other is to resolve related pedagogical problems based on insufficiency of input for the learner. The research section of the paper addresses the question of whether reading alone can give learners enough vocabulary to read. When the computer’s ability to process large amounts of both learner and linguistic data is applied to this question, it becomes clear that, for the vast majority of L2 learners, free or wide reading alone is not a sufficient source of vocabulary knowledge for reading. But computer processing also points to solutions to this problem. Through its ability to reorganize and link documents, the networked computer can increase the supply of vocabulary input that is available to the learner. The development section of the paper elaborates a principled role for computing in L2 reading pedagogy, with examples, in two broad areas, computer-based text design and computational enrichment of undesigned texts.
He underlines more clearly the problem for Krashen and co. (comprehensible input): http://llt.msu.edu/vol12num1/pdf/cobb.pdf
Bonus:
Lexical threshold revisited: Lexical text coverage, learners’ vocabulary size
and reading comprehension
http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/RFL/April2010/articles/laufer.pdf
We explore the relationship between second language (L2) learners’ vocabulary size,
lexical text coverage that their vocabulary provides and their reading comprehension. We also conceptualize “adequate reading comprehension” and look for the lexical threshold for such reading in terms of coverage and vocabulary size. Vocabulary size was measured by the Levels Test, lexical coverage by the newest version of Vocabulary Profile and reading comprehension by a standardized national test. Results show that small increments of vocabulary knowledge contribute to reading comprehension even though they hardly improve text coverage. We suggest two thresholds: an optimal one, which is the knowledge of 8,000 word families yielding the coverage of 98% (including proper nouns) and a minimal one, which is 4,000–5,000 word families resulting in the coverage of 95% (including proper nouns).
This is interesting:
Acquiring Reading Skills in a Foreign Language in a Multilingual, Corpus-Based Environment
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.109.7740&rep=rep1&type=pdf
There is currently much demand for effective language courses that target
specific audiences, as well as specific needs. The current general trend to
subordinate teaching best practices to the capabilities of technology is the subject of
numerous critical papers, yet little seems to be done in practical terms to explore the
alternatives. It is often reported how labour-intensive the creation of a language
course is, and it is frequently noticeable that users have only limited access to
tailoring a course to their needs – both in terms of being able to choose from enough
criteria in order to create their own path and navigate at their own pace through
resources, and in terms of being able to expand the resources available to them.
This paper demonstrates how comparable corpora, richly annotated by
automated NLP techniques, can be successfully exploited for foreign language
learning within a web-based environment. Specifically, the reading model developed
in this project, together with its practical implementation into a computer-assisted
language learning (CALL) environment, are designed to help adult speakers
(language L1, here English) acquire reading skills in a foreign language (L3, here
Romanian) that is cognate with a second language they know to some extent (L2,
here French). The environment – named TREAT (Trilingual REAding Tutor) -
dynamically processes user requests to display linguistic information extracted from
the corpora that is intended to facilitate reading comprehension. TREAT has also
been designed to allow the learners as much freedom as possible, while being
always at hand to offer support when needed.
A small pilot study was carried out involving Leeds University MA in Applied
Translation Studies students, and the results indicate that both my approach and its
practical implementation are sound, intuitive and user-friendly. Moreover, I have
reasons to believe that this approach also had a positive impact on the learners'
command of L2, by exposing them - resources permitting - to authentic input in all
of the project languages, activating their passive knowledge of L2 and supporting
their hypotheses about and connections between all the project languages.
Finally, the reading model developed in this project supports extensions to
other pairs of related (L2-L3) languages and the learning environment I have
implemented is scalable and easily maintainable. Tools are available to harvest ad-
hoc corpora that reflect the learners' areas of interest.
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - nest0r - 2010-12-02
caivano Wrote:thanks, I've read a Goth by that guy, was pretty good.Here's a random translation that has nothing to do with previous comments: http://www.haikasoru.com/zoo/zoo-otsuichi/#more-43
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - digitlhand - 2011-03-13
Hi everyone,
I want to apologize for the lack of updates. I have posted a new entry on my blog, for those interested in catching up with my progress in L-R with Japanese.
Ryan's LR-Blog
For those who want to know if I achieved basic fluency with the two Harry Potter audiobooks that I have in Japanese, I did not. Unfortunately, I dont think there's enough material in the two books to bring one to the threshold for fluency. The two books together add up to about 20 hrs of uninterrupted speech which didn't turn out to be enough, at least for me.
I will continue L-R with updates to my blog and here.
-- Ryan
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - buonaparte - 2011-03-14
I personally know two people (my younger sister and my cousin) who are great fans of LrS.
Here's what they told me.
1. They very carefully read what atamagaii 頭が好い said about LrS (LISTENING-reading System):
http://learnlangs.com/Listening-Reading_important_passages.htm
2. In particular, they paid close attention to the following passages:
Lesson one, find your own way by yourself.
Listening-Reading in a teeny-weeny nutshell:
LOVE + Listening-Reading (INCUBATION period and then natural listening) + pronunciation = speaking + writing.
Use LONG novels right from the start. If the languages are different the first three hours should be translated word for word. If they are similar, it is not necessary.
Pay attention to WHAT and HOW to do the WHAT. WHO does not matter.
Learning is a search for the inexplicable.
The translation:
a) interlinear (for beginners)
Grammar
When L1 and L2 are not closely related, say English and Japanese or to a lesser extent Polish and Japanese (Polish is much more complicated grammatically than English, though from the point of view of a Japanese person, they are two different dialects of the same language), you might want to read some basic information about the L2.
And there’s one more minor obstacle to overcome: PRONUNCIATION (phonemes, stress, tones, rhythm, intonation).
ASSAULT = massive exposure in a short period of time
For Japanese texts, there should be three columns:
kanji (without furigana) – hiragana transcription with spaces – translation plus grammar.
或日の暮方の事である。 ある ひ の くれがた の こと で ある。 translation in your language
A good pop-up dictionary is necessary.
3. They did read about basic grammar
4. They did read about pronunciation
5. They did read about the Japanese writing system:
5.1. They learned kana (hiragana and katakana), through Lr (they listened and looked)
5.2. They did learn about kanji: stroke order (the rules are very simple) and all the classical radicals, they did watch how kanji are actually written (some vids)
6. They did do Lr through ASSAULT (massive exposure)
As original Japanese audiobooks were not available, they used:
6.1. Jehovah's Witnesses books (no need to proofread anything, creating parallel texts takes just minutes for a book, the readers are good)
6.2. Murray, Giles - Breaking into Japanese literature
6.3. Two Harry Potter books
6.4. They did use pop-up dictionaries
They concentrated on LISTENing comprehension, kanji were in the background, but they were not ignored.
7. They did not forget about (semi-)natural listening almost from the outset:
They used
JapanesePod101 Miki's audioblog
http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ (fairy tales with audio and transcript)
Hiragana Times
Then
8. They concentrated on speaking (repeating after the recording, recitation)
Then
9. They concentrated on reading/writing.
If you want some learner friendly Japanese stuff, you can find it here:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=121590#pid121590
Dixi et animam meam salvavi.
For those interested in a Listening-Reading Blog - buonaparte - 2011-03-16
How to learn using parallel novels and audiobooks (L-R, LR, LrS):
http://learnlangs.com/Listening-Reading_important_passages.htm
Examples of literary texts for zero beginners.
To download:
http://rapidshare.com/files/401382015/ai.7z
It's one 7z file, 3.34 MB. It's packed. To unzip it use 7zip or WinRar.
The file contains:
L1 Polish, L2 French
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Saint-Exupery - FP Le petit prince 3 kolumny.pdf
Word-for-word translation with grammar and pronunciation notes.
L1 Polish, L2 German
Grimm - Rotkaeppchen (t_um interlin.doc
Word-for-word translation with grammar notes.
L1 Polish, L2 English
Carroll - A-Pd-gr Alice in Wonderland kody komorki.pdf
Word-for-word translation with grammar and pronunciation notes.
L1 French, Spanish, L2 Spanish, French
No word-for-word translation necessary.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Saint-Exupery - FH Le petit prince.pdf
Of course, you should have more texts to do L-R.
All the books should first be read (and enjoyed) in normal literary translation.
If you're interested in L-R, (even if you don't know the languages) have a closer look at the texts to see how they should be prepared.
Creating parallel novels
There are tools to do it: ABBY Aligner, hunalign, etc.
They don't work very well for Japanese or Chinese. You have to do it manually.
How to create parallel texts for language learning – Part 1
http://languagefixation.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/how-to-create-parallel-texts-for-language-learning-part-1/
How to create parallel texts for language learning, part 2
http://languagefixation.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/how-to-create-parallel-texts-for-language-learning-part-2/
PS
There are guys who did some LrS (L-R, LR), or incorporated some elements of it successfully:
1. sheetz (Japanese)
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=752
2. Mr Medialis (Japanese)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24387&PN=2
3. doviende (German, Dutch, now trying Polish)
http://languagefixation.wordpress.com/
4. Teango (Russian)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24375&PN=1
http://teango.wordpress.com/
and some more... (including Miss China who learned English through LrS, that is she used audiobooks in English plus parallel English-Chinese e-novels).