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Going to study grammar - Groot - 2010-06-05

Yeah, there's a bit of a vicious cycle. We need to understand grammar to read books, but we need to read books to practice our grammar. Smile

For me, the longer the sentence, the more trouble I seem to have. Suddenly I'm surrounded by a sea of particles -- or, worse, particles have been omitted (as in manga), and I'm really at sea. Or I have trouble figuring out where one word stops and the next begins. In fact, if I had one wish for Japanese script, it might not be furigana -- it might be spacing of words. (Again, manga helps with this somewhat, as line breaks are frequent. And of course a better vocab would help the most.)

Anyway, I'm wondering what grammar tool I should study next. I've read Japanese the Manga Way (and re-read much of it); Tae Kim; all of Genki 1/2; half of Hosogawa's text; and most of the Dictionary of Basic Grammar. I suppose the Dictionary of Intermediate Grammar?

Going to study grammar - chochajin - 2010-06-05

Well, what I did for grammar first, was going through the Dictionary of Basic grammar completely, but the way I put it into Anki and studied it, wasn't very effective, I think.
I did too much production with it :/

Then, in preparation for N2, I got the Kanzen Master Grammar book for 2kyuu.
I'm not finished yet, 25 more grammar points left, but that helped a bit more.
I'm reading the explanation in Japanese, then read the example sentences and then look through the 3 dictionaries I have (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced) to find some more information and/or sample sentences to add to Anki.

I guess once I'm through with it, I do some N2 practice tests and them move on to the 1kyuu grammar book.
When I'm through with this, I might go through all 3 dictionaries again, to add the grammar points that have not been mentioned in either of the books.

I have no idea, if that's a good idea or not or how long it'll take, but at the moment, I don't have any other ideas.

Also, apart from grammar studies, I don't really do anything else.
I watch jdramas (if possible with Japanese subs), read novels/mangas and live in Japan thus speak Japanese more or less every day.
I also still review my RTK1 deck (that I finished 2 years ago x_X ...)

Going to study grammar - Aijin - 2010-06-05

All three books in the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series are superb. Even Japanese people can learn things from just the Dictionary of Basic Grammar, hah Tongue I honestly had no idea about a lot of the linguistic concepts in the introduction, especially the logic behind the sounds used for 擬声語 and 擬態語 and by extension the reasoning behind many sounds in the language itself.
But anyway! As superb as the series is, it can be a little hard of a source to learn from for some people I think, because it just convers understanding of the grammar, rather than learning to put it into practice to express yourself (which is the entire point of learning the language, right?) so I think sometimes a textbook with a workbook are the best ways to initially learn grammar, with the dictionaries providing more elaborate details of the nuances of the grammar, as well as a superb reference.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, since you've finished Genki, I suggest carrying on to the sequel textbooks: An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese. You can download the audiotapes online for free (not that I endorse illegal downloading, but the prices of their CDs are ridiculous Tongue) After that there is another textbook for progressing from intermediate to advanced Japanese.

I've had the most luck using this method for teaching grammar so far.

Going to study grammar - ta12121 - 2010-06-06

Aijin Wrote:All three books in the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series are superb. Even Japanese people can learn things from just the Dictionary of Basic Grammar, hah Tongue I honestly had no idea about a lot of the linguistic concepts in the introduction, especially the logic behind the sounds used for 擬声語 and 擬態語 and by extension the reasoning behind many sounds in the language itself.
But anyway! As superb as the series is, it can be a little hard of a source to learn from for some people I think, because it just convers understanding of the grammar, rather than learning to put it into practice to express yourself (which is the entire point of learning the language, right?) so I think sometimes a textbook with a workbook are the best ways to initially learn grammar, with the dictionaries providing more elaborate details of the nuances of the grammar, as well as a superb reference.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, since you've finished Genki, I suggest carrying on to the sequel textbooks: An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese. You can download the audiotapes online for free (not that I endorse illegal downloading, but the prices of their CDs are ridiculous Tongue) After that there is another textbook for progressing from intermediate to advanced Japanese.

I've had the most luck using this method for teaching grammar so far.
I plan on going over that book. I did study grammar initially through tae kim. Which helped a lot. But I feel If I study a lot of grammar points. It will cut off a few years of learning. Which it will! Although I can understand 80%+ of news with transcripts. It's pretty easy to understand. But if grammar can help me get to the next level, I will do it.

Going to study grammar - Groot - 2010-06-06

Quote:I guess what I'm trying to say is, since you've finished Genki, I suggest carrying on to the sequel textbooks: An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese.
Ah, I didn't even know this book existed. OK, I'm going to get a copy of it, and I'm going to break down and order the two remaining grammar dictionaries. I really do love the Basic grammar dictionary -- I've been reading it cover-to-cover. I never thought I'd say that about any dictionary, let alone a dictionary of grammar!

Edit: Incidentally, the CDs are now included with the text, although the total price isn't cheap -- $48. Still, the Genki books cost about that too, and they were well worth it for me. I still turn to them on occasion when I remember a point that was covered in them. I wish the readings were a bit more interesting, but some of them are okay; there's a little two-page biography of Yoko Ono that was pitched to someone at my level, for example.