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+--- Thread: textbooks (/thread-57.html)
textbooks - khooks - 2006-09-28
Aside from the Genki series, I'll mention the other books that I use often for reference.
* Kanji Learner's Dictionary - Jack Halpern
* Kodansha's Communicative English-Japanese Dictionary
Kodansha's Furigana Japanese-English Dictionary
* Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar
Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Gammar
Effective Japanese Usage Guide (Kodansha, may be out of print)
* - These are my favorites
I have to mention, for listening practice, the best resource I've found to date is http://www.japanesepod101.com. It's a podcast for learning Japanese. It's extremely entertaining, with very natural, commonly-used Japanese. Plus, it only gets better as the episodes progress. If you've never listened before, I HIGHLY recommend you give them a try. It's done a lot for my motivation, especially.
textbooks - synewave - 2006-09-28
Link for audio for 'An Integrated Approach'
http://imp.lss.wisc.edu/lss/mediacat/ja/2/028/
textbooks - yorkii - 2006-09-28
agreed, the intermediate dictionary of japanese grammar is my best reference tool. i am also a big fan of the 完全マスター series (specifically aimed at the JLPT [日本語能力試験]) and am currently using the 漢字 and 文法 books for level 2
EDIT: typo's
textbooks - rgravina - 2006-09-29
krusher Wrote:Tokyo + Computer programming job = bailI'm also interested to know, what was so particularly bad about it? A programming job anywhere can be stressful with the right mix of bad conditions (unrealistic deadlines, lack of suitable programming tools, a process which is not right for the project, clueless managers etc.). But I imagine the language and working culturural differences would be one hell of a huge inhibitor to programming the way you like. I'd like to work in Tokyo as a programmer one day, so please enlighten us
.
textbooks - laxxy - 2006-09-29
I'd second the recommendation on Nakama, it seems to be the best textbook I've seen, although I've never really used it myself much. A relatively rare Situational Functional Japanese is also nice (for one, it uses authentic (i.e. not "hiraganized") script with furigana under unknown kanji from the start), although a bit more geared towards a classroom setting.
One *great* book that I recommend to everyone is Japanese the Manga Way by Lammers. This is perhaps the best book on any foreign language that I've seen in my life. You do not have to be interested in Japanese comics to appreciate it. It is good both as a textbook and as a reference.
Also Miura: "Japanese words and their uses" is an interesting and useful leasure reading.
textbooks - leosmith - 2006-09-29
I use Japanese for Everyone. It's an excellent text, but has some flaws. It's very compact (this 1 book = 2 Genki books = 3 JBP books); vocabulary is spread all over the place, usually listed separately but not always; the index is romaji to English only, no English to Japanese; there is some amount of romaji in the first 6 chapters. I'm committed to this book because I'm almost halfway through. If I had to do it over again, I would go with Genki. Genki is very similar, but has fixed all but the romaji issues listed above.
JBP has some good points. The kana version has no romaji in it; it moves at a very slow, comfortable pace. Unfortunately, there are many bad points. Plain form was not introduced in the first book; examples are favored over grammar rules; vocabulary is quite business-oriented; etc.
Minna no nihongo may be great for non-native English speakers; it teaches you Japanese in Japanese. I only saw the second book, but it uses a lot of kanji, usually with hurigana. It has a lot of group exercises, which aren't too useful for self-learners. Also, I'm pretty sure that even though I was halfway through the second book, plain form had not yet been taught; all the examples I'd seen were in polite form.
Japanese the Spoken Language was all romaji, so I didn't give it a fair try, although I hear it has very good grammar explanations, and a good audio program.
Everybody learns differently, so there is probably a "best text" for you that might not be the best for me. But here is what I like.
1. Early introduction of plain form. If you want to be able to listen, it's crucial to learn this early, and learn it well. Japanese learn this first, and think in it, so it's pretty important.
2. English explanations of grammar. Minna no nihongo taught me that learning Japanese in Japanese doesn't work for me. If there weren't any good texts in my mother tongue, I would probably use it, but fortunately this is not the case. To go a step further, the explanations should be written by someone that has excellent knowledge of both languages. Some texts seem like they were written in Japanese, and later translated, giving confusing grammar explanations.
3. Little, if any, romaji. I'm a little divided on this actually - I now regret giving away my Japanese the Spoken Language a little. Maybe I could have learned basic grammar quickly with that text, then gone cold turkey off of romaji. This is how some people learn. I think the main reason romaji is feared is that people get so comfortable with it they don't have the will power to change over to kana/kanji. Seeing a low rate in literacy, most teachers now recommend against romaji. But maybe I'm one of the few who could have pulled it off. I'll never know, because I went down the other path. So no romaji for me.
4. Good audio. Unfortunately, except for Japanese the Spoken Language, good audio doesn't exist for texts. There is usually some audio, but it's typically just the dialogs, sometimes a handful of listening exercises. After studying and drilling grammar in flashcards (supermemo), I really need all the exercises in audio form (I make my own). Think of it this way: I'm a self-learner, and it's a big step to go from flashcards to conversation. Baby steps have been shown to be the most efficient way to learn (Stephen Krashen, What about Bob, etc.). Audio is a step between flashcards and conversation - it makes my responses lightning fast.
5. Good organization, indices, pictures, interesting examples, etc, etc.
textbooks - jondesousa - 2006-09-29
leosmith Wrote:I use Japanese for Everyone. It's an excellent text, but has some flaws. It's very compact (this 1 book = 2 Genki books = 3 JBP books); vocabulary is spread all over the place, usually listed separately but not always; the index is romaji to English only, no English to Japanese; there is some amount of romaji in the first 6 chapters. I'm committed to this book because I'm almost halfway through. If I had to do it over again, I would go with Genki. Genki is very similar, but has fixed all but the romaji issues listed above.leosmith, I started with JBP 1 and 2. They are okay but not my favorite. I am currently working on Japanese for Everyone. It is an excellent text, I agree. I also have heard that Genki is awesome. Do you feel that the 2 Genki books are equivalent to the Japanese for Everyone book? I was going to order them for my next pursuit but if they are similar then there would be no real benefit. Unfortunately, I have never seen the Genki books either at Sasuga Bookstore which is close to where I live, or at the local Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc.
If you feel that these are equivalent what would you recommend as a next step? I have heard that "An integrated approach to intermediate Japanese" is a good next step after Genki 1&2; however, I don't want to jump into it if Japanese for Everyone is not equivalent. I don't want to be in over my head so to speak. Could you share your thoughts on this?
Also, if anyone has used An integrated approach to intermediate Japanese, are the audio tapes totally necessary? They are pretty expensive but if they are truly worth it then I will cough up the dough for them.
Thanks
textbooks - synewave - 2006-09-29
synewave Wrote:Link for audio for 'An Integrated Approach'At time of posting I hadn't tried downloading these files. Now that I have (tried that is) I realise that they are password protected. Ouch!
http://imp.lss.wisc.edu/lss/mediacat/ja/2/028/
They must be online somewhere...I hope. Having listened to the tapes during class, but refusing to actually buy them (they only do tapes, not CDs) I reckon they are worth being able to listen to.
textbooks - akrodha - 2006-09-30
I might get lynched for this, but I really like Teach Yourself Japanese. It's entirely in romaji--it doesn't teach how to read or write Japanese, just how to speak and understand. But since it focuses only on the spoken language, it does cover a lot of grammar, as well as colloquial and formal variants of everyday words and phrases.
textbooks - laxxy - 2006-09-30
khooks Wrote:I have to mention, for listening practice, the best resource I've found to date is http://www.japanesepod101.com. It's a podcast for learning Japanese. It's extremely entertaining, with very natural, commonly-used Japanese. Plus, it only gets better as the episodes progress. If you've never listened before, I HIGHLY recommend you give them a try. It's done a lot for my motivation, especially.I think I tried it once, the guy managed to annoy me to death after a couple minutes, and their way of presenting things really didn't click either. I thought I might listen to it in a car, but it's not good even for that for me...
Check this though:
http://www.njuku.com/
It should work well with so called "shadowing" method, i.e. reading the text along with the voice on tape.
textbooks - leosmith - 2006-09-30
jondesousa Wrote:leosmith, I started with JBP 1 and 2. They are okay but not my favorite. I am currently working on Japanese for Everyone. It is an excellent text, I agree. I also have heard that Genki is awesome. Do you feel that the 2 Genki books are equivalent to the Japanese for Everyone book? I was going to order them for my next pursuit but if they are similar then there would be no real benefit.I have the first Genki book (no idea why I bought it....). It appears to cover about 50%of what Japanese for Everyone covers, so I think Japanese for Everyone = Genki 1&2.
jondesousa Wrote:If you feel that these are equivalent what would you recommend as a next step? I have heard that "An integrated approach to intermediate Japanese" is a good next step after Genki 1&2; however, I don't want to jump into it if Japanese for Everyone is not equivalent. I don't want to be in over my head so to speak. Could you share your thoughts on this?Hey, no fair! I was going to ask you that question. Actually, I hate grammar with a passion. I'm going to finish Japanese for Everyone, drill the hell out of it, and claim victory. After that I'll focus on vocabulary till I learn all of Darg-chan's (sp?) words. After that, reading, reading, reading, writing, reading, reading, reading.
It takes forever for grammar to work it's way into my speaking. I just got back from Japan, and I was quite comfortable with the language. But my grammar sucked. My big accomplishment was, after saying "totemo oishii deshita" throughout my vacation about 10 times, I finally said "totemo oishikatta desu". I learned that over a year ago, so it takes time. If I was living over there, it would be different. Meanwhile, I've come to realize that no matter how many hours a day I study, it's still going to take months, even years to sink in. So I'm backing off of Japanese now (maybe 2hrs/day), and learning Chinese (1hr/day). Spread them languages out!
textbooks - suffah - 2006-09-30
Mr. Leo
Hope this isn't too off-topic. How do you create your wordlists for supermemo? Do you just add them as you run across them?
textbooks - jondesousa - 2006-09-30
leosmith thanks so much for the post. I really enjoyed it. I think that after Japanese for Everyone I am going to skip Genki 1&2 and jump right into An integrated approach to intermediate Japanese. I have been told by many that this is the ideal book to continue with after finishing Genki 1&2.
I agree with the grammar. Unfortunately, I live in Massachusetts. Not exactly ex-pat Japanese capitol of the US. I really don't have anyone to practice with on a regular basis. When I do find someone, I usually have a few minutes and that's it. Grammar is a very bad area for me. I have been working on Tae Kim's grammar (currently about 1/3 of the way through) and I just began the grammar book found at nihongoresources.com. These are a good supplement to Japanese for Everyone. The only tough part is that I don't have enough immediate use of and practice with my newly found grammar rules. As you mentioned. You lose them and later, after you have embarresed yourself several times, it begins to stick.
I am off to studying as well. I have been averaging about 2 hrs per day (except for iaido practice nights) and I am trying to practice as much as possible without upsetting my very soon to be wife (only 5 more weeks till I get my fingercuffs!).
Keep on and thanks again for the post.
Ganbatte.
textbooks - leosmith - 2006-10-01
suffah Wrote:Mr. LeoHi suffah,
Hope this isn't too off-topic. How do you create your wordlists for supermemo? Do you just add them as you run across them?
As I run across new words (from my text, conversation with my tutor, tv, etc) I handwrite them into a notebook. I find the notebook, with only 23 lines per page, is a very comfortable way of memorizing the words. At this point I'm only memorizing from english to Japanese pronunciation. After at least 4 consecutive days of review, I enter the words into a master excel spreadsheet.
About once per month I print out the new vocabulary from the spreadsheet, and stick the pages in my big fancy glassine paged notebook. It's sooo beautiful! There are 60 words per page. Lets assume there are 6 new pages. Every day I study a page, from english to japanese. I review the page for 3 days, and on the 4th I sort the excel spreadsheet and load the 60 words into supermemo, using the procedure I posted in the supermemo yahoo users group.
After 6 days, I'll switch to Japanese to English studying. I have a different collection for Japanese to English. As before, after 3 days of review, the 60 words go to supermemo. So when you think about it, 6 pages of new words take 6+6+3 = 15 days to get into all the way into supermemo. But from the day I first write the word into my notebook, it can be over a month.
I find it really hard to learn words if I enter them directly into supermemo. To me, that's a big step. I like baby steps.
textbooks - leosmith - 2006-10-01
jondesousa Wrote:leosmith thanks so much for the post. I really enjoyed it. I think that after Japanese for Everyone I am going to skip Genki 1&2 and jump right into An integrated approach to intermediate Japanese. I have been told by many that this is the ideal book to continue with after finishing Genki 1&2.Hi jondesousa,
I agree with the grammar. Unfortunately, I live in Massachusetts. Not exactly ex-pat Japanese capitol of the US. I really don't have anyone to practice with on a regular basis. When I do find someone, I usually have a few minutes and that's it. Grammar is a very bad area for me. I have been working on Tae Kim's grammar (currently about 1/3 of the way through) and I just began the grammar book found at nihongoresources.com. These are a good supplement to Japanese for Everyone. The only tough part is that I don't have enough immediate use of and practice with my newly found grammar rules. As you mentioned. You lose them and later, after you have embarresed yourself several times, it begins to stick.
I am off to studying as well. I have been averaging about 2 hrs per day (except for iaido practice nights) and I am trying to practice as much as possible without upsetting my very soon to be wife (only 5 more weeks till I get my fingercuffs!).
Keep on and thanks again for the post.
Ganbatte.
Good luck with the intermediate grammar. If my grammar still sucks after mastering Japanese for Everyone, I may go down that road too. And I know what you mean about living in a non-japanese area - not too many japanese in Texas either. The only supplement I'm using is Japanese verbs at a glance. Big congratulations on your wedding plans! Is your wife to be Japanese?
textbooks - jondesousa - 2006-10-01
leosmith Wrote:Big congratulations on your wedding plans! Is your wife to be Japanese?leosmith,
Thanks for the congratulations. My soon to be wife is not Japanese; however, she has an interest in things Japanese as I do, though not quite as strongly. She practices iaido and kendo with me and she is learning to read hiragana and katakana in her own time. She is wonderful and very supportive. I am lucky that she lets me devote so much time to studying as she does.
Hope all goes well with the grammar studying.
textbooks - Serge - 2006-10-06
Both 'Beginners' Guide to Japanese Grammar' and 'Advanced Guide to Japanese Grammar' are excellent - they explain the rules through the internal logic of the language, much as Tae Kim's guide, only with more structure to it. Both these books are horribly overpriced in Europe, though - I was lucky to get a second-hand copy of the first one in Amsterdam-Oost many years ago and bought the second one in Japan last year.
The best textbook that teaches and explains spoken informal language I have come across so far is the French 'Pratiquez le japonais' in the 'Langues pour tous' series. It comes with loads of very useful every-day vocabulary and explanations of many realities. It answers some of the questions that I haven't been able to answer through any other textbooks and dictionaries.
textbooks - jondesousa - 2006-10-06
I planned on purchasing the Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar today from my local Japanese bookstore. I have already completed about 1/3 of the Tae Kim book. Should I continue with Tae Kim or would I be better off switching over to Basic /Grammar now?
I am curious because Tae Kim can be a little taxing. The explanations are pretty good, but occasionally they can be a little tough to understand.
Also, I have looked at several of the Koudansha Grammar Books (ie Handbook of Japanese Verbs, Handbook of Japanese Adjectives and Adverbs, etc). Has anyone compared the Basic and Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Grammar to these books? I was thinking about getting the Handbook of Japanese Verbs; however, if the information in these other books are covered exhaustively in the Basic/Intermediate Dictionary of Japanese Grammar then I will not spend the money on these other books.
Hope to hear your thoughts.
textbooks - aircawn - 2006-10-07
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar is just that, a dictionary. It's use as a reference guide is invaluable, but it's really not for casual reading. Regardless of Tae Kim's guide, I would get (A Dictionary of...) just because it is quite precise in how certain things can and cannot be used, and specifically why. Plus it gives plenty of examples that are both correct and totally wrong so you can see the difference.
My knowledge of Japanese grammar is rather bad at the moment, but it has cleared up particular points very well for me.
P.S., I'm not trying to sell the book to you. :)
textbooks - thegeezer3 - 2006-10-23
About the Integrated Approach to Japanesse. I have to say I was quite gutted when i bought it. It looked like a brilliant follow on to the genki series - quite modern and clear to read and whats more packed with so many strucutures. Wow i thought if i complete this book im going to rock. But when i used it at home i realised that there was hardly any practice at all in the book. The pace was hyperspeed. 8 or more structures per chapter with very little practice. Genki gave loads of questions and stuff to help you internalise the strucutres. For grammar such as tabereba taberu hodo onara shitechau (the MORE you eat the More you regretably fart) it gave about 4 questions to practice that form. And for other structure which you use less frequently that isnt enough. I thought it resembled a grammar reference more than a study book. If your school used the book as the basis for lessons then it would be ok for prep i suppose. But id expect 45 mins of practice and roleplays etc. IT reminded me of the prep exercises we would give students at my english school. Designed to take 5-15mins as a taster of the lessom to come.
Ive looked and looked for a genki follow up book that
1) doesnt bullshit the buyer with learn in 21 days promises
2) gives clear examples to the grammar point it presents
3) has plenty of follow up individual practice (in a supp. book if needs be)
4) looks fresh and fun
no luck so far... come on genki - write genki 3 "The return"
textbooks - chamcham - 2007-02-26
There are 2 books that I'd recommend.
1)Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar (published by ALC Press). You can find it at http://www.thejapanshop.com. Don't be fooled by the title. Unlike other grammar books, it is sparse on explanation and instead gives you many(VERY GOOD) example sentences. So it forces you to think of the context of the situation and come to your own conclusion as to how and when to use the Grammar. I liked this approach better since it's not about blindly memorizing someone elses explanation, which never worked for me. Excellent and very underestimated book.
2)Basic Connections: Making your Japanese Flow. After you finish a basic Japanese course, you can form simple sentences, but it's hard to do anything more complex than that. This book tell you how to connect your thoughts together and make them sound coherent, thereby making you sound much more intelligent. Another rare gem of a book.
Available at Amazon.
textbooks - Magnadoodle - 2007-02-26
Here is my opinion on japanese textbooks based on my personal experience:
1) Beginner / Advanced Beginner:
Minna no Nihongo is very good and will prepare you well for JLPT 3. Good english explanations, lots of useful vocabulary. Plus it doesn't force you to learn kanji.
Japanese for Busy People: I find this textbook flawed, too much focus on polite japanese. The textbook is "afraid" of teaching you the plain tense so that you do not misuse it in a business context. On the other hand, it goes very slowly and has plenty of exercices with answers so that you won't get lost. I would recommend it for absolute beginners.
Teach Yourself Japanese: In spite of having a very flawed approach to the writing system (no kana, no kanji), and packing way to much stuff in too little space, it contains very good grammatical explanations. Would recommend using as a a complement.
A dictionary to Basic/Intermediate Japanese Grammar: A must have reference.
2) Intermediate Level:
New Approach Japanese Intermediate Course: Basically no one seems to have this book, but I think it's great. website: http://nihongo-net.jp/
textbooks - khooks - 2007-05-11
I can't find a source for it, but there's also a followup to Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar called "A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar" that's very good. Both are a little expensive, but I've found them incredibly useful as learning tools and as reference.
textbooks - _Qbe_ - 2007-05-11
khooks Wrote:I can't find a source for it, but there's also a followup to Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar called "A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar" that's very good. Both are a little expensive, but I've found them incredibly useful as learning tools and as reference.In the US you can get it at The Japan Shop (http://www.thejapanshop.com/home.php?cat=66)
textbooks - chamcham - 2007-05-12
Completely forgot about this one.
Making Sense of Japanese: What the Textbooks Don't Tell You (Power Japanese Series) (Kodansha's Children's Classics) by Jay Rubin
It's a book that ever Japanese learner should have. It teaches you about
what's really going on in a Japanese person's head and helps you to see
how Japanese people tend to view the world. And the stories are very funny,
too.
The book is especially good at answering those questions that native speakers
find hard to answer in words. They just know how it works, but can't explain why.
This is one of those books that completely changes your perspective on everything
after you read it.
Definitely a must-read.