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+--- Thread: One question... Does it work? (/thread-562.html)
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-05-31
Hi , new here. I can read about 1800 of the Joyo kanji by their "on" and "kun" yomi when applicable and can recognise/understand the remaining 200 or so although cannot remember both "on" and "kun" yomi with these last ones( remembering these is only a matter of time). This is not the problem, the problem is that I can only write about 600-700 off the top of my head and I need to be able to right more. Now this book "remebering the kanji" sounds too good to be true. So I ask all of you who have read it, is it really possible to be able to write all these Kanji when called upon in a real life situation? Oh , and in such a short period of time?
BTW, I learned kanji the Japanese way, through pure repetition. LOL
Thanks for reading.
One question... Does it work? - JimmySeal - 2007-06-01
Howdy Dave. Welcome to our forum. I'm here too.
I'd like to just add to what I've already said that before I used the book I could probably recognize about 700 kanji shakily and write a few hundred. I finished this book in about 3 months right before I came to Japan in July 2005. Thanks to the book I had great ease recognizing all the crazy symbols around me and figuring out the meanings for compounds I'd never seen before. Four months later, I took and passed JLPT level 2. Last October I scored 97% on Kanken Level 6, which requires being able to write 825 characters from memory and know their readings, compounds, and radicals. I also scored 70% on a sample test for level 5 (1006 characters) at the same time. Last December I passed JLPT level 1.
With enough review you will be able to write all 2042 characters from memory without much trouble. Just like with other study methods, there will be times when you forget which characters form a compound, but this book will make it much easier to retain the ability as long as you don't completely let your writing atrophy.
If you haven't already read the introduction and preface to the book, I recommend doing so. This PDF also contains the first section of the book:
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK%201_sample.pdf
As a final note, one of the best things about this method is that it gives each character a unique tag (English keyword) in your head, to fix it in place. And the mnemonic stories you create link the character to its keyword. Thanks to that, it's relatively easy to distinguish 拾 and 給, or 縁, 禄, 録 and 緑 and remember which is which (禄 isn't actually in book 1; it's in book 3, but if you wanted to, you could apply the techniques to learn it as well).
One question... Does it work? - Megaqwerty - 2007-06-01
As a complete beginner, I'm completed wowed by both of your guys' credentials...
Back on-topic, oh, yes, it works. During the past month when I first started I was absolutely amazed at how well mnemonics work for remembering kanji. Admittedly, the sense of magic is wee bit diminished now, but it's still quite amazing when I sit back and think about people trying to learn via rote memorization.
As you yourself mentioned, one of the greatest strengths of the Heisig method (or mnenomics, or whatever) is that you not only learn the meaning, but also learn the writing of each character, due to the intrinsic nature of the method. You seem to have the former largely down, but Heisig should help with the the latter, unless proactive interference kicks in.
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-06-01
Thanks Jimmy, it is good to hear that this method really did help you with your Japanese. I am going to buy the book and give it a go and I will let you know how it goes. I need to be able to do this for work, so it is a sink or swim situation for me, but if I can make it work it will do wonders in the fact that I can save a lot of time when writing up reports. Thanks again for the help.
Megaqwerty, thanks for the compliments, but we all started somewhere. Its a long road which does not have an end, but thankfully once the mountains have been conquered it becomes a gentle slope.
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-06-01
Ok, I looked here in Japan and no one seems to be selling this book. Anyone know where you can get one from here in Japan? Has it been discontinued?
Thanks
One question... Does it work? - JimmySeal - 2007-06-01
They just came out with a new edition so they may be a little hard to get, but not too hard. Amazon.co.jp has it:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Remembering-Kanji-Complete-Japanese-Characters/dp/0824831659/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/503-0150403-9215148?ie=UTF8&s=english-books&qid=1180696183&sr=8-1
but with a 3-5 week wait time.
You can also order it directly from the publisher for a Y3800 furikomi and it should show up pretty quickly:
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/contact/ordering_books_special.htm
One question... Does it work? - brose - 2007-06-01
Dave,
The book should work really well for you.
Given your proficiency level, I would suggest that you replace a lot of the English keywords with Japanese words (often the kun reading is best if you know it). It will save you time and is also closer to your need, which is to learn how to go from the Japanese words which you already know to the writing of the kanji. For the primitives, you might want to stick more with English as presumably your stories will be in English. If you want to use this site, which I would certainly recommend, there is a Greasemonkey script that will let you replace the keywords with Japanese words. The ideas you will get for stories and primitives will still be useful even if you don't use the keywords.
I think that you will be able to learn how to go from the keywords to the kanji very quickly-- it will work much better than learning by rote. Since writing kanji is part of your job, you will get a lot of chances to review compared with the rest of us. The harder part will be remembering which kanji "spell" the words you want, but here as well using the book will help you learn more quickly than normal.
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-06-01
Thanks Jimmy, I have ordered it tonight. Ha,Ha... I can't even write Engilsh correctly any more.
Brose, I was sort of thinking about replacing the English meaning with the "on" and "Kun" yomi , as I know what the meaning of all the kanji that I can read. This should be an interesting study period, as I have never taken on something like this(the unique study method that is).
BTW Jimmy, that link you gave me is great, as I can already write all the kanji presented. Admittedly I could write a lot of those kanji shown as they are quite easy, but I can see the potetial for having these stick in my head for good.
One question... Does it work? - suffah - 2007-06-01
Dave,
If writing is one of your primary goals, then this is definitely the book for you! I'm constantly amazed that I can easily write any kanji I've learned from this book without too much difficulty (assuming I actually remember my story).
One question... Does it work? - thegeezer3 - 2007-06-01
man you should definately get this book. I got it in 2005 and i started with real motivation but i made a bad decision on concentrating my efforts on vocab and grammar so i could speak more while in the country. In hindsight i should have just concentrated for 3 months on getting the book under my belt. Here i am now, back in the uk and im coming back to japan for 4 weeks and possible another stint living there. So i started at about the 500kanji mark and im now nailing 50kanji a day using this sites leitner system. Theres no way i can lie about my progress. Most of my cards are in boxes 3 and 4(+) and im steaming forward like nobody's business. Im hoping to have finished writing all my stories by 3 weeks from now and spend the rest of my time just reviewing and getting stuff engrained in my head. Theres simply no other faster way to learn all these kanji than this method.
One question... Does it work? - JimmySeal - 2007-06-01
If you decide to come up with your own keywords, I advise you to do it with caution. Two of the main pillars of the system are:
1. every character has one and only one keyword
2. every character has a unique keyword
Trying to keep track of a character by using more than one reading would break the first principle. And ON-yomi are badly suited for use as unique keywords because there are so many homonyms. Of course, there are certain KUN-yomi that go with more than one character too. Heisig has been careful to come up with English keywords that distinctly capture the "flavor" of kanji when there are others with similar meanings, so be careful not to paint yourself into a corner with Japanese keywords.
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-06-01
Thanks suffah and thegeezer3. It is deffinately a unique method that is getting results. What makes me even more impressed is that even people who do not have a good grasp on the laugauge can learn them so well. (that is meant as a compliment)
Jimmy, gotcha. I will try it way it is suppossed to be done first and see how I go.
One question... Does it work? - DaveNB - 2007-06-09
Just recieved the book and it is very interesting. Definately puts a new light on studying and remembering how to write kanji. Thanks guys.