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night break and day break - thegeezer3 - 2007-05-31
ok when i first started the book and came across night break heisig said
"while we normally refer tot he start of the day as "daybreak," Japanese commonly refer to it as teh "opening up of the night" into day" hence night-break.
ok so i took this to mean that japanese refer to the part of the day that goes from dark to light as nightbreak whereas we would call it daybreak.
Now ive reached the keyword "daybreak" and realise that they both cant mean the same thing and must be opposites.
Can someone explain when in the day nightbreak occurs. Is it in the late evening when it goes from light to dark or is it in the early hours when it goes from dark to light.
ta
night break and day break - RoboTact - 2007-05-31
You can look up meaning of kanji in dictionary, where you can see additional unambiguous translations like 'dawn'. If you use firefox, install rikaichan plugin.
night break and day break - decamer0n - 2007-05-31
on a similar note, i discovered just today something very surprising about the japanese words for sunrise and sunset (the full words, not the single kanji meanings).
sunrise is 日の出 (hinode) sun exit.
sunset is 日の入り (hinoiri) sun entrance.
i double checked the meaning with my japanese teacher, because this felt totally backwards to what i would say about the sun's comings and goings.
interesting...
perhaps it is in some way conceptually linked to the myth of the japanese sun goddess amaterasu going into a cave to hide and leaving the world in darkness until she could be coaxed out by uzume's provocative and playful dance.
night break and day break - gibosi - 2007-05-31
And there are also 日出 （にっしゅつ）, for sunrise and 日没 (にちぼつ) for sunset. Sunset, a "drowning" sun, seems to make sense, but an "exiting" sun for sunrise? Again, the use of 出 here and in many other compound words does often seem quite strange to native English speakers. It often seems to imply leaving one place as well as arriving at another place. So yes, I think it might be helpful to think that in some sense, the sun wakes up, leaves home and arrives in the sky at sunrise.
night break and day break - ファブリス - 2007-05-31
Although it's pronounced [kana]de[/kana] in 日の出, the meaning might be related to the verb 出す :
JEDICT Wrote:出す【だす】If you, ahem... "come", I believe it's also 出す ("to let out").
(v5s,vt) (1) to take out, to get out, (2) to put out, to reveal, to show, (3) to submit (e.g., thesis), to turn in, (4) to publish, to make public, (5) to send (e.g., letter), (6) to start (fire), to produce (a sound), (7) to serve (food), (suf) (8) to begin, (P)
So the sunrise is the letting out of the sun which seems more logical.
As for the sunset, you could think of it as the sun re-entering the earth. I mean, way far on the horizon it looks like the sun just goes into the ground.
night break and day break - JimmySeal - 2007-05-31
There are two kanji that mean dawn and Heisig needed a way of distinguishing them, so nightbreak and daybreak. Essentially the same meaning.
The Japanese word for dawn is 夜明け which means "the opening of night."
出る doesn't always mean "leave." In this case, it means "come out," as Mr. Fabrice pointed out, but 出る carries that meaning on its own, without the assistance of 出す.
night break and day break - thegeezer3 - 2007-06-04
hmm i reread these replies and still not sure and i used my rikaichan and it basically says for nightbreak: nightbreak, dawn, sunrise
for daybreak: dawn, sunrise.
so there the same. But there must be some slight difference in nuance which can help me distinguish the two with my stories.
night break and day break - ファブリス - 2007-06-04
If you want to get a better "feel" for the nuance of the kanji, look at compounds that are made with the kanji, instead of the meanings in the kanji database.
Also look for nuances when the kanji appears as a prefix or suffix, some times it can be different than when it appears in the middle of the compound.
night break and day break - naniwa - 2007-06-04
I think you can get too caught up in trying to discern some non-existant nuance in a keyword.
Remember the ultimate goal is to associate each keyword with a particular sound and meaning, not necessarily the Heisig keyword.
There is essentially no difference between nightbreak and daybreak, but Heisig deems it essential for each kanji to have a unique keyword. I personally think this can be misleading at times. For instance, I initially took "upright" to mean the condition of standing up straight, whereas it is actually similar in meaning to "virtuous", which he uses later on. ( As an aside, "upright" was used in the Japanese title of "The 40 Year Old Virgin").
I subsequently made the decision to check each kanji in a dictionary before commiting it to memory. This slowed me down a little to be sure, but I certainly think it helped me in the end. It also allowed me to understand the broad range of meanings contained within a particular kanji, without trying to fathom what it was Heisig was driving at.
I should add that I don't mean to disparage the man. He is certainly a genius, but he does tend towards the eccentric at times.
night break and day break - wasurenaide - 2007-08-07
to add to the 日の出 question...
出る as a verb can mean "to appear"
as in, appear on stage, or appear in a scene or television show.
so it's not the exit of the sun, but rather, the sun's appearance.
night break and day break - samuize - 2007-08-21
?sunrise is 日の出 (hinode) sun exit.
sunset is 日の入り (hinoiri) sun entrance.?
Funny! I spoke to my Japanese wife and actually 出口 could be thought of as "place to come out" and 入口 as "place to go in" in which case 日の出 and 日の入り make perfect sense.