+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: General discussion (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: How to approach 1-1 language exchange? (/thread-5428.html)
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-04-16
I live in Japan and through a website I have come in contact with some Japanese people, who would like to assist in practicing my Japanese listening/speaking skills, in return of me teaching them some English. I write "them" because I have talked with several Japanese people, but it is still 1-1 conversations. So the idea is, that we meet at a cafe or something and teach each other. That's all fine and dandy, but then I started to think about how to structure a meeting in such a way, we both feel we have learned something. As I understand they are interested in improving their listening/speaking skills. So I guess they just want some simple English turn-taking conversation about wind, weather or whatever. I, on the other hand, would prefer (I think) to present a chapter from my Japanese grammar book and then we could talk about that in Japanese and English.
So my question goes; have you experience with 1-1 language exchange and how did you approach it, to insure the involved partners felt they didn't waste their time?
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - mullr - 2010-04-16
I've done this a fair amount. I structure I use is 90 minutes, half english and half japanese. During each half, the other language isn't allowed. That's what really makes these things useful. Otherwise, you'll end up just using nouns from your L2 and filling in everything else in your L1.
As far as content goes, it depends. Sometimes there are just things to talk about, and then you talk. When I don't have as much in common with the person, I use subjects from http://iteslj.org/questions/.
I'm a bit unsure about the textbook business. It might work out, but that makes it more of a 'teaching' relationship, with some implied power balance. I prefer a 'friendly' relationship, avoiding that issue entirely.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Javizy - 2010-04-16
Assuming you're not an English teacher, how would you feel if they brought an English grammar book and did the same thing? Most of the people I have done language exchange with just want to chat, and it usually ends up in Japanese. I ask questions about structures and vocabulary, but I don't base the conversation around it, and certainly don't start by saying 'we're going to be studying grammar for the next hour'. How grammatically reliable is your average native speaker anyway?
You might find somebody serious enough to do that, but it seems like a lot of Japanese study English pretty casually, if you can even call it studying. At any rate, the best way to maintain such an exchange is to become friends, so you need to find common interests and have fun speaking to each other. You might be able to agree on some sort of serious study section of your meetings, but why not try getting to know each other first?
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-16
I think that language partners are pretty useless. You either don't click with someone and it becomes a pain to talk to them at all, or you do click and you have trouble keeping it formal and 50/50 English/Japanese.
Just try to make some friends and don't worry about having set topics etc to talk about or making sure you speak only 100% Japanese during the allotted time.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-04-16
#Javizy
My Japanese speaking/listening skills are not good enough for "chatting" and if their English is on the same level I wouldn't mind at all if they brought and textbook. It just shows, as you said, they are serious about their study. Bringing a textbook shouldn't be interpreted as "this is how we're gonna do this", but just as a suggestion. But a normal everyday conversation would of course be optimal and it would be great if that is possible.
#mullr
Thanks for the link. It seems like a really nice way to keep the talk going, when you don't know the other person. I suck at small talk, so I think about bringing it with my next time I go clubbing: "Death & Dying: Do you want to know the date of your death? Why or why not?"
The girls gonna love that
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-16
@sprutnik: Japanese people studying English as a hobby are rarely serious.
Anecdote 1:
I occasionally substitute at a friend's English conversation school. Whenever I start a lesson I just ask the group (usually housewives) "Do you want to do the book or so you want to have a conversation?" No one has ever said book yet.
Anecdote 2:
I teach private English lessons on the side. With two of my students, whom I meet for several hours per week, I speak Japanese for the entire "lesson". They don't particularly care. They just want to a) speak with a foreigner and b) ask the occasional "how do I say this?" question. I took these students off of (another) friend of mine who was reducing his teaching hours and they specifically asked him for another teacher with fluent Japanese.
Anecdote 3:
I used to teach at an English conversation "cafe" while in university. Of the hundreds of students I taught there, no one ever even asked any questions about English. They just wanted to hear a person speaking English to them even if they couldn't really answer back. The concept of a serious student there was a person who came regularly. I had one guy who came every day for 4+ hours.
English education in Japan is usually about having vaguely foreign fun, not really about studying or learning anything concrete. If I busted out a textbook and other materials during my first lesson I probably wouldn't have had any students contract with me.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-04-16
Jarvik7
That is also my fear.
And I understand what you all are saying about "just make friends and talk Japanese". I would prefer that too and it's what I strive for. The problem is it requires some level of Japanese and then we have a chicken or egg dilemma. I think the solution is to hope we "click" and everything goes smoothly. As a backup plan I'll take a look at the link mullr provided, and prepare some unofficially questions about the Japanese language I have troubles with and casually slip them into the conversation.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-16
Make friends through that meetup service. Don't limit your interaction to "90 minutes at Starbucks every Sunday" and don't try to make the interaction so formal/rigid. If you hit it off with someone, do stuff that isn't particularly language-related. You'll learn far more by learning language that comes up while you do stuff together than you will by asking pointed grammar questions in a cafe.
Coincidentally I got a phonecall from a new potential student while typing this.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-04-16
#Jarvik7
That is what puzzles me. Why would Japanese people pay money and invest time in learning English without being serious about mastering it or at least learn it the best they can? I understand why university students don't care. It's just a part of curriculum, like German and Latin was when I went to school. Never had any user for it. But paying money for English lessons without being serious about it?
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-16
Japan is in a long "self-improvement" boom. People want to get better at English, but aren't open to the real dedication it would require to truly become advanced. That's not to say that Japanese people lack dedication, you can see proof of the reverse in otaku of every sort. Rather, improvement in language ability is gradual and it's hard to see, especially when you lack the opportunity to put it to use regularly. Another problem is that they just don't have the time or are exhausted from endless overtime.
My students are never going to become fluent by meeting me for only one-two hour(s) per week if that's all they do (that is all most of them do). I do encourage them to get English books from the international library, write English diaries, watch English movies over and over etc but most don't have the time or will.
(yet) Another problem is the huge and incredibly unethical Eikaiwa industry, but that is another thread. Oh, and the public school system which is geared to standardized testing instead of real learning and subject to the whims of an overly powerful PTA. Japanese people are setup for English failure from their first day of school..
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-04-16
jarvik7
I guess its not too different from people in the West trying to learn Japanese without ever really learning it. Including me for the moment being!
Unfortunately the standardized tests in Japanese public school continue at the Japanese universities. Studied at one a few years ago and I have never before or after, felt I wasted my time as much as I did there. Though, I did learn how to study for tests instead of study for learning. Just too bad that counts for nothing in the real world.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-16
Sadly it extends beyond university into employment. My girlfriend is currently job hunting in anticipation of graduation and is being subjected to SPI testing at most of the jobs she applies to.
Being able to do well on standardized testing is, unfortunately, considered a life skill here, starting from pre-school (you need to test into the good ones).
Even after that there are always kentei to do to keep in the "self-improvement boom". I am of course no exception. I am currently studying for kanji kentei, BJT, and joushiki kentei.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - dizmox - 2010-04-16
Hmm, in my case I just looked online for a pretty Japanese girl who was studying english and we happened to get along well in real life and ended up becoming a couple. I think that's the best motivation for me to continue to use and improve my Japanese.
In my case I found I could socialise reasonably decently after a few days of having made the switch from sterile SRS'd example sentences to being in Japan, which surprised me. I was expecting to be almost mute from never having practiced speaking before.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - bluemarigolds - 2010-04-16
My own experience with doing language exchange was a positive one. I found my partner by posting an add on craigslist. Admittedly, I think, it's easier to find one if you're a girl.
We'd meet up once or twice a week and chat for an hour, 30 minutes in Japanese and 30 minutes in English. Her English was much better than my Japanese, but she was a kind and willing listener who helped me get my confidence--something I was never quite able to achieve in a classroom. Communicating in another language is much more than just knowing grammar and vocabulary, it's also about having the confidence in your own ability to convey your thoughts in your L2. Without that confidence, you're going to be very limited in what you can do in your L2. Confidence is everything and the best way to build it up is by practicing with someone who isn't going to correct your every sentence, like a teacher is prone to do.
So, talk about what you have the vocabulary for--school, homework, the weather, food (always a good one), etc. The rest will come with time. For the English part, I would definitely come prepared with topics just in case things stall out.
I wish I had a conversation partner around here. Definitely take advantage of the opportunity to do language exchange while you're abroad.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Javizy - 2010-04-16
You don't necessarily have to do it in person. I had a three-hour chat on Skype yesterday. You can find friends overnight with the Mixxer. It's more convenient and less intimidating, so it's probably worth finding some online friends in addition to the others. You might end up meeting in person anyway (that's how I met my girlfriend).
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - mr_hans_moleman - 2010-04-16
Talk about things that you guys did this week. I'm sure you will encounter things that you can't say, and that's when your language partner comes in to help fill the blanks. I suggest that you don't used textbooks with your language exchange partner. If it's something you can do on your own, then it's best to do it on your own.
When your language partner says an interesting phrase/word then write it down.
In my case, I prefer having a female language exchange partner. The dynamic is much more fun and if the girl is cute you have a bit more incentive to try your best.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - chris9687 - 2010-06-16
Actually lads I have a bit of a question if you don´t mind. Forgive me if its already been answered elsewhere, but could someone give me the link to this meetup website you were talking about. Also Ive seen a bit of talk around the forums on setting up skype chats with Japanese people, how does one go about that.
Thanks guys and sorry for coming off as a total newbie......
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - sprutnik - 2010-06-16
I use this one: http://www.conversationexchange.com
In you profile you choose if you interested in Skype conversations, mailing or meeting in person.
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - aphasiac - 2010-06-16
chris9687 Wrote:Actually lads I have a bit of a question if you don´t mind. Forgive me if its already been answered elsewhere, but could someone give me the link to this meetup website you were talking about. Also Ive seen a bit of talk around the forums on setting up skype chats with Japanese people, how does one go about that.http://www.sharedtalk.com. Find tons of live chat buddies, there's also group rooms. Everyone's very friendly, go for it!
Thanks guys and sorry for coming off as a total newbie......
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - Javizy - 2010-06-16
aphasiac Wrote:Thanks for the link. That site's a lot better than The Mixxer. I managed to find a bunch of people living in London, so maybe I can get some regular chats at reasonable times, or even practice out in the wild away from my microphone :ochris9687 Wrote:Actually lads I have a bit of a question if you don´t mind. Forgive me if its already been answered elsewhere, but could someone give me the link to this meetup website you were talking about. Also Ive seen a bit of talk around the forums on setting up skype chats with Japanese people, how does one go about that.http://www.sharedtalk.com. Find tons of live chat buddies, there's also group rooms. Everyone's very friendly, go for it!
Thanks guys and sorry for coming off as a total newbie......
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - aphasiac - 2010-06-16
Javizy Wrote:Thanks for the link. That site's a lot better than The Mixxer. I managed to find a bunch of people living in London, so maybe I can get some regular chats at reasonable times...In sharedtalk, just click 'Voice Chat' and you can instantly start voice/text chatting with some friendly native speakers. There are *always* a few Japanese on there, no matter what time you log on, and the chat quality is decent.
Javizy Wrote:..or even practice out in the wild away from my microphone :oLiving in London, you can easily find real language exchange buddies on gumtree.com, or come to one of the many weekly Japanese language meetups that go on in this vast city.
Actually I met a fellower 'Reviewing the kanji' forum user at a 書道 meetup last week; you're not him are you?
How to approach 1-1 language exchange? - captal - 2010-06-17
I did the language exchange thing and my results varied- when I first moved to Japan I was in the country, so my first language partner was a guy who I think just wanted to be seen with a foreigner. We only met once. I then met with a Japanese teacher who took me shopping at CostCo to get dog sheets- she's still a good friend to this day and really helpful when it comes to my Japanese. The third girl I met lived in my area, and she ended up as my girlfriend and now we're both on working holiday together in Australia
. Ahh, language exchange...The best thing ever for my speaking ability was to go out to a random bar and start drinking and talk to whoever comes in that wants to talk- if it's just you an the bartender- that works too! In the country just about everyone is surprised to see a foreigner at a bar and they want to take you places and buy you drinks. All of it was a lot of fun and adventure- I even did a karaoke request at a country snack bar- haha- oh memories.