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Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - tiger10x - 2010-04-02
I finished RTK1 and am now reviewing but at a boring rate. What would help is if I had a list of these Kanjis sorted in groupings such as the body parts, directions, seasons, zodiac signs, trees, numbers, animals, etc. These things are scattered throughout the book and would really help my reviewing if they were sorted out in these groups.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Nukemarine - 2010-04-02
2001.Kanji.Odyssey by CosCom does this sort of, but the groupings are usually in groups of five.
Not sure how that'll help you when it comes to reviewing though assuming you're reviewing RTK using RevTK or similar SRS.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - tiger10x - 2010-04-02
What I meant was grouping all kanjis in RTK1 categories for example:
SEASONS
Summer
Winter
Spring
Winter
DIRECTIONS
East
West
North
South
BODY PARTS
Body
Stomach
Arm
Eyes
Nose
Arm
Leg
Trunk
...and so on
It would help me in reviewing as this would be sorted in an organized manner that would otherwise appear random. If there's someone who organized all of these it would really help.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-03
Doing it in themed groups would make the entire book pointless. The key to Heisig is his ordering. The majority of kanji are too abstract to really fit cleanly in a group anyways.
It also wouldn't make sense to use groups just for reviewing and not the initial learning, since then you wouldn't be able to use an SRS.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - kendo99 - 2010-04-03
I think NukeMarine's correct, not sure exactly what you are trying to do but the KO2001 stuff will let you work with kanji in themed groupings to learn readings, compounds, etc if I understand it correctly. Continue your normal SRS reviews and start working on KO2001 or the Core 2000 series on smart.fm to begin taking things to the next level. Or do the sentence picking thing, or all three. The reviews in the SRS will gradually get down really low so that you can knock them out in five or ten minutes a day. I don't understand how you are currently trying to review, or if you are even using an SRS. If you aren't, that would be my first move. If you need links to information on some of this stuff I'll be glad to give them to you.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Asriel - 2010-04-03
It sounds like you're heading in a path that would be a complete waste of time.
I'll give you that yes, θγis literally "stomach" and ε is literally "north," but the vast majority of the keywords Heisig gives you are (arguably) pointless.
You've finished RtK 1, and are reviewing at a rate that is boring? I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I'm hoping that you're doing more than just reviewing RtK -- mining sentences, gathering vocab words, learning kanji compounds. The more you add in more information, the more you will remember the kanji, the more your RtK reviews will trickle away, and you'll never see them again.
You should be working more on internalizing the kanji, making your RtK reviews disappear, as opposed to making them more organized or fun. You've finished RtK, let it go its course.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - tiger10x - 2010-04-06
Just how is it pointless? Yes it's pointless to have themed groups while you are still going through this course. The kanjis are organized in the order of the course. But after finishing this and in the process of reviewing, I don't see what's so pointless about it. It helps me in reviewing to have these in themed groups that otherwise is scattered randomly.
No one's understanding my point here. But anyway, I'm asking if there is a list like this somewhere. I'm not asking for opinions or alternatives. And I don't use this SRS things or even know what it is.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - hotsw4p - 2010-04-06
an SRS is a "Spaced Repetition System", basically flash cards on crack. As you review using an SRS, each time you correctly identify a card it will schedule the next time you see it further and further away, making room for new materials. When you miss a card, it resets your review schedules (or makes it more frequent) so that you get the optimal use out of your studying time. Using an SRS essentially maximizes the productivity of your flash card studying, and minimizes wasted time by reviewing cards you already know well.
The reason people didn't "get your point" is because they all assumed you were using an SRS. The reviewing methods on this site itself are based on SRS technology. When using an SRS, the cards come at you based on the review schedule it generates for you (and some shuffling)... it would not take into consideration any logical groupings, unless you specifically split your cards into separate decks based on these logical groups and then use each deck separately in an SRS program (like Anki).
as far as whether there is a list like the one you are talking about, i will let others answer that because i do not know.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Asriel - 2010-04-06
You're learning Japanese without using an SRS?!
Wow, that brings back memories...horrible ones.
I suggest you download Anki right away, spend a few days rushing through the RtK deck, since you already finished it, so you can start getting your reviews in line. Maybe spend like a week to 10 days, adding 200 cards a day. It would take a while, but you really need to get an SRS going, buddy. Then you'll understand why grouping them like you said isn't worth it.
But a bit of advice: It may seem weird at first, because you have little/no control as to what you're going to review and when, but the main hurdle to get across is to simply trust the system.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - nest0r - 2010-04-06
Hahaha, I love how just plain unthinkable it's become to not use an SRS. ;p
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - kendo99 - 2010-04-06
The SRS is just the latest step in our evolution as cyborgs, which began as soon as we started off-loading memories into writing.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - tiger10x - 2010-04-06
Great going, now you go off-topic with some illogical statements. All for just asking a simple question. If you don't know the answer, then don't post. Use common sense. "Oh wow I don't use some electronic system so now I'm dumb". Listen, I don't spend 24/7 on forums or the internet for that matter so I don't know about this SRS stuff you brag about. I have known people who master languages at a fast pace without the use of electronic system so know what you're talking about before you even speak nestor and asriel.
At the start I only ask a simple question and expected straightforward answers getting to the point. I did NOT ask for opinions, I did NOT ask for suggestions, I did NOT ask for your alternatives whatsoever. For the last time, you are not understanding what I'm asking, just insult those who prefer another way more suitable for that individual.
***** this, this forum is worse than I'd have expected. You can ban me now, I don't care.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - smartazjb0y - 2010-04-06
People are kindly helping you and you're saying THEY'RE dumb and illogical? They're not bragging, they're giving you suggestions that work and that help with studying. I guess that's not considered helpful anymore?
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - nest0r - 2010-04-07
No need to fly off the handle. But you really ought to consider simply sticking with the inbuilt spaced repetition that kanji.koohii.com uses with its flashcards, or simply download and use Anki, you really can't beat the spacing effect when it comes to memorization. That's what I think is funny, that we're all (well, most) so used to the SRS in such a short amount of time, we can't even wrap our minds around the possibility of doing otherwise. Join us.... join us....
And trust me, if the people on this forum wanted to bash you for not knowing something that most of us probably didn't know about till we got here over the past few years, you'd know it. With your apparent sensitivity level, I'm guessing you'd be crying and bashing your computer to pieces in a fit of forum rage. ^_-
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - slivir - 2010-04-07
Just use ANKI and add your own personalised tags to separate the kanji into different categories if that's what you really want to do.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Asriel - 2010-04-07
You're probably not coming back but I'll take the time to respond anyway.
It goes without saying that countless people have learned languages without using SRS. Take a look at my dad, for instance. People think he's native, and once he graduated HS, he never "studied" English, he just read books all the time.
Nobody is "bragging" about SRS. Nor does it take much research to find it. In fact it's so common, that when people like you come into our forums, we automatically assume that you're using it. Besides, what's so bad about taking advantage of the resources available to you to make things easier on yourself?
One of the wonderful things about this forum is how people help each other. If you take a look around, if someone doesn't get a tool/resource/answer that they are looking, they will often do it themselves and then contribute it to the community. Hell, this site itself is Fabrice's contribution to the community (and an SRS, to boot)
If you're going to come into our community-oriented forum and selfishly act like a toddler who screams and cries when he gets served ice cream when he asked for pudding, well then frankly, I don't want to see you around here.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - tiger10x - 2010-04-07
"People are kindly helping you and you're saying THEY'RE dumb and illogical? They're not bragging, they're giving you suggestions that work and that help with studying. I guess that's not considered helpful anymore?"
Uhh no I simply pointed out what Nestory and Asriel were trying to say to me when they think it's "unthinkable" to not use an SRS. That easily implies an insult to those who choose to go with a way most suitable for that individual. That was never helpful in the first place.
"No need to fly off the handle. But you really ought to consider simply sticking with the inbuilt spaced repetition that kanji.koohii.com uses with its flashcards, or simply download and use Anki, you really can't beat the spacing effect when it comes to memorization. That's what I think is funny, that we're all (well, most) so used to the SRS in such a short amount of time, we can't even wrap our minds around the possibility of doing otherwise. Join us.... join us....
And trust me, if the people on this forum wanted to bash you for not knowing something that most of us probably didn't know about till we got here over the past few years, you'd know it. With your apparent sensitivity level, I'm guessing you'd be crying and bashing your computer to pieces in a fit of forum rage. ^_-"
You bashed other people by your petty insult how it's "unthinkable" for anyone to not use this program. You're in no position to complain about that now. I would rather cry and bash my computer over a major failure I make in real life than over some forum from cyberspace
"You're probably not coming back but I'll take the time to respond anyway.
It goes without saying that countless people have learned languages without using SRS. Take a look at my dad, for instance. People think he's native, and once he graduated HS, he never "studied" English, he just read books all the time.
Nobody is "bragging" about SRS. Nor does it take much research to find it. In fact it's so common, that when people like you come into our forums, we automatically assume that you're using it. Besides, what's so bad about taking advantage of the resources available to you to make things easier on yourself?
One of the wonderful things about this forum is how people help each other. If you take a look around, if someone doesn't get a tool/resource/answer that they are looking, they will often do it themselves and then contribute it to the community. Hell, this site itself is Fabrice's contribution to the community (and an SRS, to boot)
If you're going to come into our community-oriented forum and selfishly act like a toddler who screams and cries when he gets served ice cream when he asked for pudding, well then frankly, I don't want to see you around here."
Fine, SRS is great. That's not the point though. It doesn't mean you should push someone to use it. Again, I am NOT asking for recommendation to use this SRS stuff. I said that once then I still get posts suggesting I should use it. You really are pushing. No one is obliged to use it.
You know the only good answer was from hotsw4p, at least he got to the point. The posts after that were just repetitive off-topics.
Last time, I asked a simple question and nothing more. Instead of getting to the point you're just changing the subject and try to hide it with other statements because you probably know you're wrong and don't know what to say about it. So you already lost to this argument; in that case I'm done here.
I just remembered to unsubscribe from this topic. Ban me
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - LazyNomad - 2010-04-07
To OP,
there is kanji dictionary, that has kanji divided into groups (exactly as you have described it in your post), which you can then drill. It has nothing to do with SRS. But it is paid (at least english version of it).
http://jishop-software.com/
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - nest0r - 2010-04-07
Oh cool, you can subscribe to topics?? I just found the link. That's weird, I never even saw it before. There's even a check box when you're writing stuff! Huh.
@OP - Nuh UH. YOU lost this argument! Stupid head! And don't bother replying to me cause I'm not gonna read it! So there!
But seriously, just try Anki. First rep's free.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Asriel - 2010-04-07
I don't know where to find your list.
Make one yourself.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Evil_Dragon - 2010-04-07
Off-topic posts? In MY thread?
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - kendo99 - 2010-04-07
The very first reply (NukeMarine) answered your question EXACTLY. KO2001 divides kanji into groups by subject. Everyone else was just adding to it. The comments about it being unthinkable to not use an SRS weren't aimed at you, he was talking about how everyone automatically assumes anyone learning kanji would be using an SRS, and how, for us, it is unthinkable not to, so we just assume everyone does. Which also explains why a lot of people weren't quite understanding what you were asking.
And whah, whah, whah, people tried to offer you advice on a better way to learn, based on an empirically verifiable psychological FACT known as the spacing effect. It works for EVERYONE with a functioning long term memory. It's not a matter of learning styles, and suitable. It works. So, yeah, people with first hand experience are going to try to explain to you why you should try it. They are trying to help. Not to be pushy. Not to be mean. To help you.
And some of the comments in this thread weren't even aimed at you. You don't own the thread just because you posted it. So quit being a whiney baby with your temper tantrum and use all the frigging valuable advice that has been given to you here.
Nobody is saying you suck because you didn't know about the SRS. All anyone is saying is that a shoebox full of index cards with kanji drawn on them crudely sucks, when compared to the SRS which is a faster, more efficient tool for the job.
I don't personally care how you decide to study, but getting pissed off because people are trying to answer your question/give you advice, just because the advice/suggestions aren't EXACTLY what you asked for is immature, selfish, and inherently anti-social. And I know, because I can be all 3 of those things sometimes.
So cheer up buttercup. There are a million ways to study, and if you ask for advice on the internet, your bound to hear about all of them. Nobody is making you use it though...even if you'd be pretty damn silly not to at least hear it out, do some research, and THEN decide if you still think your way is the best. Or maybe your 12 and you really just want to go download some hentai... either way. your call.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - Nukemarine - 2010-04-07
What have you done that requires banning?
Think about it: You asked a question and others didn't quite get what you were asking for. On this forum, it's just assumed unless otherwise made apparent that one uses an SRS of some sort. Still, the reply at the top said "if" you're using an SRS then it wasn't necessary unless you were going for vocabulary where grouping is really useful for speedy learning.
However, to answer your question: No, it probably does not exist with Heisig. If you use or reference the Kanji Pict-o-Graphix book, the author does group his Kanji into themes so that may be what you want.
Also, if you jump into Japanese hard core, you probably don't have to review Kanji individually anyway. You'll get enough of that just with vocabulary study and reading.
PS: Never come to any forum if you don't want to read undesired opinions. It may be annoying, but it comes with the territory. I've suffered it myself when I or someone else asked for information and others chimed in presuming what the information was for.
Recent example on another forum is one guy asked for some Romaji subtitles. It took 20 posts of "Don't use Romaji" before someone posted a Romaji/Hiragana convertor link to use with Japanese subtitles. I answered his question, but I still gave my opinion (use the hiragana convertor only on the subtitles).
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - JimmySeal - 2010-04-07
Nukemarine Wrote:What have you done that requires banning?Some people, when they have a difference of opinion with the members of a forum, would prefer to be forcibly removed from the forum than use their own self control to not visit it anymore (presumably). I've seen it happen before.
tiger10x Wrote:You bashed other people by your petty insult how it's "unthinkable" for anyone to not use this program.nest0r's comment wasn't about you, and he even clarified that in the text you're quoting immedately above your sentence here. You need to get over yourself, and maybe work a little bit on your English comprehension a bit. It makes no sense to get all bent out of shape over a comment like nest0r's, especially when it wasn't even about you.
Ninja edit: Quote attributed to wrong person.
Organized grouping for all Kanjis of RTK1? - kendo99 - 2010-04-07
errr i didn't write that? I more or less mocked that...but i didnt quote it either