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+--- Thread: Stroke order for rare characters? (/thread-5305.html)
Stroke order for rare characters? - gfb345 - 2010-03-31
Where can I find the stroke order for rare characters like 兂 ?
Thanks!
Stroke order for rare characters? - yudantaiteki - 2010-03-31
You may just have to guess...when you're learning very rare characters like that you should have a good enough grasp on general stroke order to at least make an educated guess.
Stroke order for rare characters? - Jarvik7 - 2010-03-31
Rare characters, especially complex ones, can have several common stroke orders.
Stroke order for rare characters? - Rael89 - 2010-03-31
When my regular sites don't have the stroke order I go here:
http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-stroke-order.php?searchChinese=1&zi=%E5%85%82
It has yet to fail me in finding a rare or odd character.
Stroke order for rare characters? - Jarvik7 - 2010-03-31
Rael89 Wrote:When my regular sites don't have the stroke order I go here:While it's good as a last resort I suppose, Chinese and Japanese stroke order often differs.
http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-stroke-order.php?searchChinese=1&zi=%E5%85%82
It has yet to fail me in finding a rare or odd character.
While I understand that your character was just an example, it's pretty obvious what the stroke order should be if you've been paying attention to the stroke orders for all the jouyou.
Stroke order for rare characters? - LazyNomad - 2010-03-31
http://kakijun.main.jp/
EDIT: sorry, this site has no stroke order for this very kanji, but usually is very helpful.
Stroke order for rare characters? - gfb345 - 2010-03-31
Jarvik7 Wrote:While I understand that your character was just an example, it's pretty obvious what the stroke order should be if you've been paying attention to the stroke orders for all the jouyou.The one thing that I've learned through this process is that nothing is obvious to me when it comes to 漢字! (E.g. see my comments on 殿上眉/天上眉 at the very end of http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=94972#pid94972 .)
In fact, I do pay a great deal of attention to stroke order (if anything I do it too much), and still whatever intuition about stroke order I may have developed from this is routinely wrong whenever I'm confronted with an unknown character. Here are a few examples, off the top of my head:
九 vs 力
反 vs 成
恵 vs 由
叫 vs 収
升 vs 我 (or 刑)
升 vs 飛
栃 vs 励
蚕 vs 笑
猿 vs 遠
In all these pairs, whatever one learns from the first one, leads one astray with the second one. (Not all of these illustrate a stroke order issue, strictly speaking. In the (栃/励) and (蚕/笑) pairs, the stroke orders of the corresponding parts match, but the direction of one of the strokes differs. The last pair (猿/遠) is admittedly borderline: here the difference is neither in stroke order or direction, but in the presence or absence of the hook that terminates the antepenultimate stroke of the RHS component.)
I've checked these examples against various sources, so I'm pretty sure I'm working with the most widely accepted 書き順/書き方 for these characters, not rare variants.
There are several other puzzling cases that I'm now forgetting, or that don't fit neatly into pairs of contrasting cases like the ones above. (For example, the stroke order for the last 3 strokes of 斉 surprises, even though I can't really explain why... And my brain insists on drawing the leftmost stroke 尸 first, no matter how much I try to teach it otherwise.)
Stroke order for rare characters? - gfb345 - 2010-03-31
Rael89 Wrote:When my regular sites don't have the stroke order I go here:Very cool thanks! And thanks to LazyNomad for http://kakijun.main.jp .
http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-stroke-order.php?searchChinese=1&zi=%E5%85%82
It has yet to fail me in finding a rare or odd character.
Stroke order for rare characters? - shirokuro - 2010-03-31
LazyNomad Wrote:http://kakijun.main.jp/You can request that they add stroke orders for kanji that they're missing.
EDIT: sorry, this site has no stroke order for this very kanji, but usually is very helpful.
Stroke order for rare characters? - LazyNomad - 2010-03-31
gfb345,
don`t forget that stroke order for the same kanji is different in Japanese and Chinese tradition. You can read about the difference in wikipedia. So, keep in mind that the stroke order which is considered correct in Japan is at the same time considered awfully wrong in China.
So it`s a matter of personal choice to follow or not to follow the order that Japanese tradition presribes.