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日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
Hello, I make a lot of threads and for that I am sorry! But you are all amazingly helpful! A few months back I only knew 500 kanji but now I can use 1000 and understand the meaning of 2000. I wouldn't be able to have finished without you guy's help!
I am taking the JLPT 2 this December for both High-school credit and running-start. (Running-start is a program where you finish college credit in high-school.) This month I am using Anki to memorise all the vocabulary in げんき 1 and 2 because I am starting a College course next month. If I want to graduate I will need to take this class. Sadly, it's a simple class. (Only げんき 1 being used XD) I am also reviewing the kanji still and I plan on doing so for the entire year! Once they are all on one side I will stop, but I have a whole year to review. I plan on starting and finishing Core2000 and Core6000 by early summer. Then I will start AJALT sentence mining completely in Japanese. I will stop using a Jisho.org, even though it is freaking awesome, and find a monolingual replacement.
My vocab sucks majorly. I understand 3級 in terms of vocabulary but I am at least able to read words in their kanji form since I started lang-8 a year ago. I learned 70% of my vocabulary with kanji I didn't know at the time. For example, I learned pretty as "寄麗" instead of "きれい". So that helps.
My grammar is spotty. I guess I can manage all the grammar but I suck at 敬語, who doesn't?
My listening comprehension usually consists of me complaining, 「何て言ったかな？w」
How can I acheive my goal? I'm going to go to a college where they don't teach Japanese or Mandarin so I would like to be fluent in 2 more years. Fluent being, "I can understand 80% of the Japanese around me in both written material as well as its spoken form. So pretty much 一級 in comparisom to an actual native. (
)I have 3 practice test plus I plan on taking the free online practice test that I found.
Should I use one after smartfm? How should I use them?
Be free to discuss the tests in general!
宜しくお願いします！
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
Read. Read. Read some more!
Seriously. You need to start reinforcing your existing vocab while picking up new vocab in context. Seriously.
I seriously underestimated the power of this. I started 'reading' manga before I could really understand what was going on. My reading ability has skyrocketed!
If you aren't using readthekanji.com, why not!? Other than actually reading, that site is by far the most influential in my ability to read. Smart.fm is second up.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
So what's so special about that readthekanji site? Since multiple members here have praised it... I went and looked, seems like it's just stuff you could easily do with Anki or on other sites (without pay restrictions). Is there something I'm missing? I'm curious about the 'speed reading' feature it lists, what's that about? Is it another 'timed' thing like what smart.fm has/had, or what you can do with timeboxing in Anki?
Also, that recent blog about 'remembering the kanji' was bemusing, if I had an account I'd link them to this site...
http://www.readthekanji.com/blog/2010/03/remembering-the-kanji-mnemonics/
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
ruiner Wrote:So what's so special about that readthekanji site?In theory you can do the same with Anki, yes, but it enforces things... You have to actually remember the words and type them. You can't just say 'yeah, that's X' and continue. If you get it wrong, it'll bother you with the word a lot more, so you're a lot more careful, too.
I tried Anki with a premade wordlist and it wasn't very helpful to me. I think it was a combination of factors... Especially the time between reviews of a word. For remembering, Anki is set right. For learning, it's crap. I've tried changing Anki to be more like ReadTK with the new decks based on Smart.fm's stuff, and maybe that'll be the ticket... But until I get that right, ReadTK is amazing. I'm all the time seeing words that I learned in ReadTK and every time I am -so- happy that I can read it now.
So I guess in short, yes, Anki -could- do the same, but ReadTK works out of the box. You don't have to make any decisions about when words show and where to get word lists.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
Okay, read, read, read and read more.
Which books would you reccomend? Thanks!
readthekanji? Hmm? I think I will finish smartfm first before moving on to things like that...
What is the cheapest way to buy Japanese books?
Can I get Amazonjp to ship here? :3
I want to buy 時をかける少女 so bad... ;__;
(EDIT: This post was too late, someone allrady responded-- XP)
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
gyuujuice Wrote:Okay, read, read, read and read more.Well, books you like, obviously. I started reading easy manga like Yotsuba& and moved to harder ones like One Piece. (Which is still easy near the easy end of the scale, but not as easy as Yotsuba&.) Very soon, I hope to have improved my reading skills enough to be able to read light novels. I'm experimenting with using the computer to help me read them, but I'm not sure that's working well yet.
Which books would you reccomend? Thanks!
readthekanji? Hmm? I think I will finish smartfm first before moving on to things like that...
What is the cheapest way to buy Japanese books?
Can I get Amazonjp to ship here? :3
I want to buy 時をかける少女 so bad... ;__;
(EDIT: This post was too late, someone allrady responded-- XP)
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
Thanks, I'l try "翼"？. I think you made a typo.
The problem is that I don't know what Japanese books I like...nor English books.
I guess I'll start with a bible, some books that I am familar with such Narnia\Harry Potter ect. then Japanese books based on movies that I have liked thanks!
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
gyuujuice Wrote:Thanks, I'l try "翼"？. I think you made a typo.Nope, no typo. よつばと。 Yotsuba&. It's about a girl with green hair annnnd... The first story starts with moving to a new city with her dad. Because it's about a child, and sort of aimed at children, it provides very easy reading and enjoyment for most people.
The problem is that I don't know what Japanese books I like...nor English books.
I guess I'll start with a bible, some books that I am familar with such Narnia\Harry Potter ect. then Japanese books based on movies that I have liked thanks!
You're probably beyond that level, though, since you're talking about being JLPT3 already.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
あっ！ ごめんなさい！
I just googled it... ^__^
Thank you
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
wccrawford Wrote:I like the schedule that Anki 'bothers me' with just fine. ;p You can type in Anki, can't you? I haven't tried that, though. And you can do cloze deletion and active recall, et cetera. You can adjust the timing of reviews. I set mine so that, for example, initial hard interval is slightly less than 24 hours. Between that and using my 'reference/monitor/general/specialized corpora' method, I'm satisfied with reinforcement.ruiner Wrote:So what's so special about that readthekanji site?In theory you can do the same with Anki, yes, but it enforces things... You have to actually remember the words and type them. You can't just say 'yeah, that's X' and continue. If you get it wrong, it'll bother you with the word a lot more, so you're a lot more careful, too.
I tried Anki with a premade wordlist and it wasn't very helpful to me. I think it was a combination of factors... Especially the time between reviews of a word. For remembering, Anki is set right. For learning, it's crap. I've tried changing Anki to be more like ReadTK with the new decks based on Smart.fm's stuff, and maybe that'll be the ticket... But until I get that right, ReadTK is amazing. I'm all the time seeing words that I learned in ReadTK and every time I am -so- happy that I can read it now.
So I guess in short, yes, Anki -could- do the same, but ReadTK works out of the box. You don't have to make any decisions about when words show and where to get word lists.
At any rate, I realize you weren't dissing Anki and this exchange wasn't about the pros and cons of both, I was just interested in particular features you like about ReadTK. So what's the deal with the speed-reading thing? I ask because between 'timed sessions' and some ideas I have based on wordsearch/skimming, I'm interested in any new ideas related to the topic to see if there's anything I haven't covered. I stumbled on someone's site mentioning exercises for 速読 in their classes, but it was I think shaped around the interactional type of model I referenced in the 'comprehensible output/languaging' thread, so I still need to think about how to modify that for self-study...
Also, I use Anki for both learning and retention and I think everyone else should too! Especially with regards to 'multisensory integration'. But I guess you know that by now. ;p
Does ReadTK use different content from the freely available JLPT stuff on Anki/that e-somethingorother site? Anyway, I would sign up to check the site out myself, just seems a hassle to go through that process for the 'trial'. Maybe there's a demo video...
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
gyuujuice Wrote:あっ！ ごめんなさい！Have you already seen my thread on Japanese-language books? I think if not, you definitely need to: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5048
I just googled it... ^__^
Thank you
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
ruiner Wrote:So what's the deal with the speed-reading thing?I hadn't heard of it before you said it. I'll have to go look. Heh.
Edit: It looks like it's just a benefit of the normal quiz. Because it emphasizes the readings of the words, and not the meanings, you internalize it better and can recognize the shape better. It has -definitely- improved my reading speed.
As for Anki... Well, I need to see a word a -lot- before I memorize it. Anki doesn't do it for me... Once you marked a word 'hard' you don't see if until your next session. With ReadTK, you'll see it again in a minute or so, probably. I need that immediate reinforcement. For harder words, I'll need to see it several times during the session.
Now, once I have it memorized using the above, Anki's timing is probably pretty close. It's just the initial learning that doesn't work for me.
And that may change as I get better at the language. Already I'm -way- better at learning completely new words than I was even a few months ago. I can only think that I've started to understand the language at a deeper level and things can sink in deeper, quicker, now.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
ruiner, Actually I just started reading it an hour ago! ^__^ありがとうございます！
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
wccrawford、「read the kanji」を教えてくれてありがとうございます！
It sounds interesting!
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
Hmm, I hadn't thought of doing a reading-only session. I was going to experiment with meaning-only, so I guess I'll try both ways... Getting abstract now though so I shouldn't speculate further.
I always read anti-microspacing guidelines but never really found much neural evidence against doing them for initial learning*, and others have seemed to find it useful, in the first encounters, at least, as well. Like wasn't that a big reason why folks were using smart.fm then switching to Anki later? At any rate, I usually get multiple contexts with new stuff with my method, but I have also reached that point when new words are easily picked up without much or any SRSing, so I guess that's why I've become more interested in these topics related to 'reading'.
@gyuujuice - Cool, no problem. Just doing my small part, with a dab of villainy to make up for my lack of programming skills. ;p
*With the old 'reinforcement' vs. 'interference' caveats, of course. Planned redundancy, crystallizing ah-ha moments, and complementary this and that, etc.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - Burritolingus - 2010-03-09
readthekanji has some fundamental differences (as wccrawford covered) that make a huge difference - for me, anyway. You drill a word several times in a short span of time, gradually working up its percentage, so it starts out a bit more like cramming. There is a spaced element involved, but it's nowhere near as formulaic and strict as, say, Anki. I've only been using the site for a little over a week now (upon realization that my ol' beta account was grandfathered in as a lifetime account, and sudden interest to study JLPT2 stuff), but I've seen a decent amount of repetition of "mature" (higher %) cards. Failing those cards will kick its % down quite a bit, necessitating a few more crams to get it back up to mature again. It sounds like a lot more work than a standard SRS, but I find this way far preferable.
I think there's a psychological element involved, too. I can do two-thousand reps on readthekanji in one day without worrying about amassing a massive backlog of expired cards in three days, when I might not want to do a huge amount of reviewing (today is one of my light reviewing days...). Managing a backlog of cards in Anki is incredibly aggravating to me, and I don't have to deal with that headache with readthekanji. Whether this site will be as effective as Anki as far as memory goes, however, I can't say for sure yet. But at the rate I've been going through kanji and vocabulary with it, I doubt it can do any harm. For studying JLPT-specific material, it definitely gets my vote. Course, unless you were lucky enough to make a beta account, you gotta fork over some dough for a subscription...
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - wccrawford - 2010-03-09
Burritolingus Wrote:Managing a backlog of cards in Anki is incredibly aggravating to me, and I don't have to deal with that headache with readthekanji.Makes me wonder if Anki wouldn't be better if it didn't tell you how much backlog you have. I've never heard anything good about that number and it's definitely caused me (and you) stress.
ReadTK also doesn't have an 'add X cards per day' option to worry about either. If you keep reviewing, you get more cards when you're ready. If you don't, you don't.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
That could be interesting, to add some kind of plugin for level-checking/stats-checking in Anki that activates cards accordingly. Kind of a variation or extension of that script Bombpersons wrote in my 'smart.fm corpus?' thread.
As for the backlog #s, for the record you can hide it, or there used to be such a plugin, or maybe I hallucinated it. Personally I don't even worry about my back log for some older decks, often by the time I get around to reducing the piles, I've been working on other decks and reinforced the information there and elsewhere, so it doesn't really matter to me one way or another. Or maybe it does matter and I just haven't addressed some decay in my foundational knowledge, until I end up stranded in Japan.
One day I do hope to see something like 'ed2k links' but for Anki cards. That could be cool.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - Burritolingus - 2010-03-09
wccrawford Wrote:Burritolingus Wrote:Managing a backlog of cards in Anki is incredibly aggravating to me, and I don't have to deal with that headache with readthekanji.Makes me wonder if Anki wouldn't be better if it didn't tell you how much backlog you have. I've never heard anything good about that number and it's definitely caused me (and you) stress.
ReadTK also doesn't have an 'add X cards per day' option to worry about either. If you keep reviewing, you get more cards when you're ready. If you don't, you don't.
ruiner Wrote:As for the backlog #s, for the record you can hide it, or there used to be such a plugin, or maybe I hallucinated it.Yeah, there's an option in Anki's preferences to "Show due count and progress during review" which I have turned off. It absolutely makes reviewing less tedious and frustrating when you can't see how many dozens of cards you've failed!
I'd love to see a plugin that always hides this info, though. The way the option currently works, it only hides that info while reviewing. (And if such a plugin already exists, for the love of 神々 someone lemme know!)
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ruiner - 2010-03-09
There's a CustomizeToolbar plugin near the bottom of the shared plugin list that I think can hide card numbers. Just found it. I never looked because I'm so easy going though, plus if I did care enough to hide them, I think I'd obsess over 'what lies beneath', hehe.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - ziazdamauler - 2010-03-09
I believe in the reading for learning words too. It is the best way. Use something like the rikaichan add-on for firefox and start reading miscellaneous things like yahoo.co.jp.
The other advice I would give is don't review Kanji themselves. I would say learning words are best. You know I remember when I did the JLPT 2 exam I got like 90% on the kanji/vocabulary section without ever studying the kanji only the vocabulary.
You need to build sight vocabulary to read quickly and Kanji is no different. I know words using the Kanji and the meaning and reading of the words but often if I see only one Kanji I don't recognize it.
To plug my own site
http://jlptdictionary.com
You can get a list of vocabulary for JLPT by level. IF you send me an email I will create you an account you can use to focus on the words you don't know.
Cheers
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - gyuujuice - 2010-03-10
ziazdamaulerさん、
ではイカイちゃんを使います！
あっ、なるほど。音読みを勉強しないつもりですが、いい勧めですね。＾ ＾
サイトのリンクをありがとうございます！
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - rich_f - 2010-03-10
For those with problems with Anki's early intervals (I had problems sometimes too until I started doing this): what I do for Anki when I have trouble learning a word/grammar point/whatever is that word list thing that Iversen talked about on the how to learn any language forums. I think someone here posted something about it a while back. Search for Iversen's method here or look for word lists on the how to learn any language wiki.
It's a little tricky to do with Japanese, but it's a good way to brute-force introduce vocab that won't normally stick. You pick 5-9 words you want to learn in your L2 (target language), write them down. Then study their L1 meanings, and *don't* write them down until you can write them all down from memory. Then go do something else for a few minutes, cover the first column with the original words in L2, look at the list of L1, and try to re-create the list of L2 words, BUT don't write down the list until you can do the whole thing in one go from memory. I usually do the lists as Kanji w/furigana -> EN -> Kanji w/furigana ->EN and so on. I also alternate the order I write the words down in the list, to change up "firsts" and "lasts," for better retention.
You can juggle 3-5 lists of 5-9 words that way and drill a lot of words before putting them into Anki. I'll drill the lists, walk away and do something else for a while, drill again, walk away, drill, sleep, drill the next day, then if all is good, enter full sentences into Anki and toss the lists. I even have some copy paper I drew columns on with a pencil that I just photocopy to make lists quickly. I set it up so you can fold it into 6 columns, and use both sides. Fold over the column you want to hide. Easy. Just take a piece of paper in landscape, and measure it off that way. I suppose you can do it in word or photoshop or something like that.
I only use word lists to get tricky vocab to stick. I don't do it with everything, and I don't do it indefinitely. After that, I use sentences and Anki.
EDIT: Yeah, you could ditch the EN for JP definitions, too. I just use EN because it's faster for word lists. When the cards go into anki, I don't use EN.
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - pm215 - 2010-03-10
gyuujuice Wrote:What is the cheapest way to buy Japanese books?You can, but their international shipping charges are extortionate. For alternatives, see this thread or this one.
Can I get Amazonjp to ship here? :3
日本語能力試験2級の進め｜JLPT2 Prep Advice - Javizy - 2010-03-10
http://www.bk1.jp/ They have most of the books Amazon has, but you can still use standard shipping.
As for grammar, going over the Kanzen Master example sentences using Anki sure won't hurt, and you can find a spreadsheet in the Group Study forum. Other than that, just do as many practice questions as you can. If you can't remember the syntax for certain expressions, getting them wrong in the questions will teach you sooner or later.
People recommend just reading instead of using JLPT workbooks, but I think it's worth investing in one of the reading comprehension ones (while reading as well, of course). There's a certain skill in doing the reading comprehension questions, so it makes a lot of sense to see what you're up against, and get a bit of practice. I'd say this is even more true for the listening comprehension section.
Novels and manga are great, but remember the writing is going to be a lot of descriptions and dialogue. Make sure you read a range of different materials so you're familiar with the different kinds of writing styles that might be tested on the exam. Look for some simple articles that you can handle, essays, pamphlets, product descriptions, formal letters, and so on.