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+--- Thread: Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners (/thread-5110.html)
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ems573 - 2010-05-17
Nukemarine, your last post was very helpful, but I still have a few questions. There's a ton of info on this site, but even after reading all of it I'm still having a bit of trouble processing it all.
First off, how do you sort the kore spreadsheet? I have this thing in OpenOffice Calc but I can't figure out for the life of me how to get it to put them in 2001KO order.
Another thing, do you suggest using 2001KO, the actual audiobook, like reading through the HTML pages, as well as doing the SRS? Is there any special way to do it?
For the Core 2000/Core 6000, do you suggest using their online flash app that is like Anki but much, much worse? Or just go straight into the kore deck made from the spreadsheet?
Sorry if this stuff is obvious, and if someone besides Nukemarine knows the answers please let me know. I just finished Heisig RTK1 so I'm scrambling to look where to go next.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - skimalodeon - 2010-05-18
Hello! Thanks everyone for all your help. I tried to do the spreadsheet thing... but failed, then i read the later post and realised that I can download the decks straight to anki. Yay! But... I'm still confused. So I got the core 2k/6k intermediate. The deck is for 'reading' however all of the question cards are only in hiragana, with the answers having the kanji and English. Is this so that I have to write down the kanji for each card when i see the hiragana? For now I would rather read kanjis and have hiraganas for the answer. So, what I'm asking is- how do I change it so that there's a sentence with kanji and the piece of vocab for the question, and then the answer as the sentence in English, the sentence with kana and the vocab meaning. Sorry, these kind of unrelated and badly explained questions must be driving you geniuses crazy!
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Mcjon01 - 2010-05-18
@skimalodeon
Just open up the Browser, go to actions, and select "Generate Cards". Choose Reading as the model you want to use, and you should be good to go. Suspend or delete the dictation cards if you don't want to use them.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - dusmar84 - 2010-05-18
As a n00b, these are just some general questions I have about studying vocab and the whole srs thing in general, anyone feel free to add their two cents:
1) When learning/reviewing vocab (i.e. through the core/ko2001 decks) how strict are you on yourself on the hiragana endings. For example, the word for "warm" is "あたたかい" and I know this and I know the kanji is 暖 however sometimes I will write it out as 暖い and forget the か. Would you mark this as wrong? Just curious.
2)Writing out reviews. Do you find this actually helps in retaining the info or just gives you a chance at handwriting because I for one never go back and review the sentences I've written in my notebook (perhaps to my detriment
)3) Srsing sentences. Since I'm fairly new to the idea of srsing whole sentences, is the aim here to memorize the whole thing so in the future you can whip it out verbatim or just to get the sentence pattern ingrained in your head, or a little bit of both?
4) I have about 4 anki decks going at the moment and I'm finding it kinda hard to keep on top of all of 'em. I have a Tae Kim deck, a core deck, a heisig deck and a misc. vocab deck. Is this pretty standard?
Ok I'll shut up now, thanks for the help
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Asriel - 2010-05-18
dusmar84, I'll add my 2c, for what its worth:
1. 暖かい → 暖い and such
When I review, I do the "Correct = Spacebar, Wrong = 1" thing.
Therefore, it's generally either "Good" or "Again"
Making small mistakes like this are the things that make me click "Hard" instead of "Good" or "Again"
Then again, it also depends on how I'm feeling on a certain day.
2. Writing out reviews
I always write out my RtK reviews and my Production (just kana-->kanji) reviews. Otherwise, I don't find it necessarily helps.
3. SRSing Sentences
The idea is that you want to see how the word works, and common collocations of the word. So, you don't want to memorize it verbatim.
I've been messing around, but what I'm with now is:
Front: Vocab Word
Back: Vocab reading, meaning + Sentence (more, if it can be used in different ways, or if I want some)
They're there so I'm just thinking of a 1:1 translation that is wrong.
ie. if it translates as "grasp," I want to know if it means "understanding" or "holding tightly"
4. Different Decks
My current decks (pertaining to Japanese) are:
a. Vocab/Sentences: Front: Vocab, Back: Reading, Meaning + Sentences
b. Vocab/Kanji Production: Front: Kana word (meaning whited out, in case of homophones) Back: Kanji Word. Mainly words from Deck A
c. Core6000 -> same format as deck a, but it's the Core series.
d. RtK
I'll consolidate A and C once I get through Core. I'll also have a Grammar deck sooner or later :/
I just went through a large overhaul and lost a bunch of cards, old decks, blah blah blah.
But it's OK, because I think the way it is now is set up better than I had it before.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Hashiriya - 2010-05-18
a good way for a beginner to learn all of those counters in Japanese would be to repeat them while counting their reps as they exercise. (that is, if you people actually do exercise at all lol)
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - raygun - 2010-05-21
Do you recommend going through Tae Kim's Complete Guide to Learning Japanese or skip that section on the site and go directly to the Japanese Grammar Guide section?
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2010-05-21
Should be fine with just the grammar section if you're up to speed on everything else.
test code
test code
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - dusmar84 - 2010-05-23
I wanna start getting into ripping audio from dramas for listening practice on my ipod. What are some good programs out there for this?
Also, is it possible to find scripts for american dramas which have been dubbed in japanese on dramanote? Dont laugh at me, but I've got Full House dubbed in Japanese that I wanna rip and follow along with the script. I'm a sucker for Stephanie Tanner
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - nest0r - 2010-05-23
That reminds me of a request I made, re: subs2srs, last year: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=69558#pid69558
I never pursued that line of thought further, though. There's also Audio Lesson Studio.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - dusmar84 - 2010-06-01
Hi all,
Since traveling down this road of language learning via srs and moreover the internet, I have gone through a lot of trial and error and ups and downs in terms of what works and what doesn't (as I'm sure we all have). Seeing as how this is a thread especially for beginners I was hoping that some of the more 'seasoned veterans' could share their own "If I had known then what I know now" moments. I think it can be really productive.
Thx
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - wccrawford - 2010-06-01
The only lesson I've learned in 3 years is this: Keep doing -something-. Even if it's not 'studying', keep doing it. Talking to people (in the target language, of course), studying books or websites, reading for fun, watching anime (subbed (target lang or not) or not)... Something.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - SammyB - 2010-06-01
wccrawford Wrote:The only lesson I've learned in 3 years is this: Keep doing -something-. Even if it's not 'studying', keep doing it. Talking to people (in the target language, of course), studying books or websites, reading for fun, watching anime (subbed (target lang or not) or not)... Something.This. Too many breaks where I chose to do nothing because I wanted to study for an hour but knew I only had 10 mins to spare.... those 10 mins would have added up... Do something. Now.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - wccrawford - 2010-06-01
Okay, make that 2 things:
You don't need to give up your life. I only 'study' for 30 minutes a day at most. (I'm lazy.) Granted, that's slow progress, but it's -constant- progress. 10 years ago, I never imagined I'd be able to read/speak Japanese at all. I've been studying for 3 years now and have a language partner and read a lot. Others are passing my skills left and right, but that doesn't matter. I'm getting there at -my- pace and I didn't give up my existing life to do it.
SammyB is right about the 10 minutes tho... If you have 10 minutes that you're waiting for something, you can use it to practice Japanese. Music, spoken audio, reading, SRS'ing... Something.
For example, while I'm waiting for my lunch at the sub shop, I read One Piece. (Or whatever manga I'm currently reading.)
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - mafried - 2010-06-01
Log your progress so you can see your improvement over time. Choose a metric directly correlated with studying--minutes studied and # words read (estimate) are my metrics.
Complementing the "do something" advice: eliminate barriers to study. You won't study/do something in your target language for 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there if you first have to boot up your computer, or you don't have your computer. Or if you've decided to log your progress in an online spreadsheet, but don't have access to the internet you won't do anything because if you don't track it, it "won't count." Very bad.
Have something printed, or on something electronic (iPod, cell phone) that you always carry with you always. Make sure it takes less than 5 seconds to get engaged, including logging your progress (I use the "Notes" app on my iPod, and just write down the start/stop times for example).
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - wccrawford - 2010-06-01
Okay, make that 3 things:
Have a way to measure your progress. I disagree with the 'logging' because numbers don't adequately describe language ability.
Instead, I kept a library of things I couldn't understand yet. Every once in a while, I pull those things out and see how much better I am at understanding them. It's important to find different levels of things, and when you're a beginner it's hard to find things all the way to the top because you can't really tell what level they are. They're ALL incomprehensible. But try anyhow. As you get better, make sure there are always things that are your level, just above your level, and WAY above your level.
It has worked really well for keeping my spirits high.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ta12121 - 2010-06-01
wccrawford Wrote:The only lesson I've learned in 3 years is this: Keep doing -something-. Even if it's not 'studying', keep doing it. Talking to people (in the target language, of course), studying books or websites, reading for fun, watching anime (subbed (target lang or not) or not)... Something.I agree with this. Just keep doing something.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - aphasiac - 2010-06-01
wccrawford Wrote:You don't need to give up your life. I only 'study' for 30 minutes a day at most. (I'm lazy.) Granted, that's slow progress, but it's -constant- progress.Yeh, this is the main ;problem I have with the AJATT method. It's meant to be fun, yet giving up all my favourite TV shows, movies, music, books and time with friends to me is not fun.
In fact giving up on my favourite bands and hanging out with my English speaking friends (which khatzumoto does advocate in a few blog posts) is frankly inconceivable..learning a new language is a nice hobby, but it isn't *that* important..
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - gyuujuice - 2010-06-01
"but it isn't *that* important.."
Doesn't the importance depend on the individual?
To me it's pretty important. I try my best to make it 100% Japanese but living as an American high school student presents holes in your immersion.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ta12121 - 2010-06-01
aphasiac Wrote:And people still wonder how he got fluent, he basically cut of any english if possible in any way. And put japanese in there, reading/music/immersion/friends,computer(in full japnaese). Plus reading anything/stuff in full japanese/srsing as well. It all depends on your goals. I do want fluency and I do work a lot in japanese stuff daily(reps range from 800-2000 for all my decks(have 3 in total now). Plus immersion, although my computer isn't in full japanese cuz other people got to use it, but eventually it will be full. My immersion is good, but I need to incorporate more reading. But I prefer to read physical stuff(books/mangas,novels,etc) in japanese instead of online. But as long as I can print it out, il'l be fine for a while.wccrawford Wrote:You don't need to give up your life. I only 'study' for 30 minutes a day at most. (I'm lazy.) Granted, that's slow progress, but it's -constant- progress.Yeh, this is the main ;problem I have with the AJATT method. It's meant to be fun, yet giving up all my favourite TV shows, movies, music, books and time with friends to me is not fun.
In fact giving up on my favourite bands and hanging out with my English speaking friends (which khatzumoto does advocate in a few blog posts) is frankly inconceivable..learning a new language is a nice hobby, but it isn't *that* important..
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2010-06-01
Remember, this "guide" is aimed at people that are working adults or have other priorities in their lives that lead to only 2 to 3 hours at most a day for study.
I'm not going to disagree that you get better at reading by reading, speaking by speaking, listening by listening in addition to helping all three by studying either coordinated lists or the random nature of items espoused on the AJATT blog. Just remember, what one can do as a college student is not as easy when one is a working adult so some adaption has to be made.
In addition, if you're able to go full time studying like ta12121, this guide is not relevant. There's less need to macro chunk the studying because you're going full on Japan during that time. For guys like me though, this became very important and I found it worked for me.
In my case, I think one can introduce the Japanese as you improve at it sense the length of time exposed to "nonsense" ie the stuff you don't understand yet is much longer. It's also important to introduce stuff that makes sense even earlier and run the wheels off (see my thread about AJATT and listening skills for that opinion on the matter).
TL: DR, yes it does depend on the person.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ta12121 - 2010-06-01
Nukemarine Wrote:Remember, this "guide" is aimed at people that are working adults or have other priorities in their lives that lead to only 2 to 3 hours at most a day for study.I understand perfectly. Time is a huge factor, I am a college student on summer vacation. So I do got plenty of time to spend on japanese, since there isn't school for now. I remember when I used to waste so much time doing nothing all those summers ago, if only I was learning japanese back then!
I'm not going to disagree that you get better at reading by reading, speaking by speaking, listening by listening in addition to helping all three by studying either coordinated lists or the random nature of items espoused on the AJATT blog. Just remember, what one can do as a college student is not as easy when one is a working adult so some adaption has to be made.
In addition, if you're able to go full time studying like ta12121, this guide is not relevant. There's less need to macro chunk the studying because you're going full on Japan during that time. For guys like me though, this became very important and I found it worked for me.
In my case, I think one can introduce the Japanese as you improve at it sense the length of time exposed to "nonsense" ie the stuff you don't understand yet is much longer. It's also important to introduce stuff that makes sense even earlier and run the wheels off (see my thread about AJATT and listening skills for that opinion on the matter).
TL: DR, yes it does depend on the person.
Anyhow, I agree that for working adults, it's a different matter. Other priorities in life than japanese(family,spouse,etc). In a few years down the road, I won't have as much time to spend on languages as I do now(work,family,other matters,etc), so gotta use the time well.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - mafried - 2010-06-01
wccrawford Wrote:Have a way to measure your progress. I disagree with the 'logging' because numbers don't adequately describe language ability.I don't disagree with you. That's why the numbers I log on a day-to-day basis are more a measure of effort invested (words read, hours spent listening, anki cards added) than actual language ability. The goal really is to keep me from falling of the wagon more than anything else.
I do like your suggestion, however. I'm going to start doing that.
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - torida - 2010-06-05
Nuke, the download that "Core 2k6k Vocabulary Audio" links to in the OP doesn't seem to work... I've tried it in a couple of different browsers, the link below it works fine. If you get chance to check it would be great...
Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2010-06-05
torida Wrote:Nuke, the download that "Core 2k6k Vocabulary Audio" links to in the OP doesn't seem to work... I've tried it in a couple of different browsers, the link below it works fine. If you get chance to check it would be great...I clicked on the vocab link and the mediafire page came up. I'm using Firefox. Perhaps try it again?