Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners

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Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ryanjmack - 2013-07-04

Do you guys think core 2k/6k/10k is better than sentence mining?

For example, Japanese Level Up recommends doing 1000 sentences from Genki I and Genki II. You build on the previous knowledge you know and provide as little english as possible. Then by 1000 cards you switch to J-J only. Once again you build on what you know adding sentences where you recognize all the words except one or two new words. I have been reading a lot about the sentences because I finish RTK in a couple days. I could imagine the only reason core would be better is because it has audio in it.

Also with tae kim I was thinking about putting the whole sentence on the front of the card, all in japanese. On the back put the word that is new with the meaning of the new word Example. Front: 魚だ。　Back: だ　(is). Another example Front: 魚じゃない。 Back: じゃない (is not). Over time with my sentence deck and tae kim deck sentences would be much more complex. Several other guides I've been referring to, stress input before output. Would this be an ok way to approach tae kim's grammar?

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ryanjmack - 2013-07-04

One more thing, I'm previewing core to see if I like it, how exactly do you get the audio to work? I'm sure it's simple but I can't get it to work for the life of me..

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - uisukii - 2013-07-04

Place the audio files directly in the "collection.media" folder, usually found somewhere like user/documents/anki. As long as the file names in both the card field and the collection.media folder match up, they should be automatically played upon review. By default, you should be able to press the "r" key to repeat audio.

I mean no offense but this information is found both on the first page of this thread and by searching for "core2k 6k audio" in the search engine on this website. Getting audio to work is also outlined somewhere within the Anki user manual, found on the Anki website.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ryanjmack - 2013-07-04

uisukii Wrote:By default, you should be able to press the "r" key to repeat audio. I mean no offense but this information is found both on the first page of this thread and by searching for "core2k 6k audio" in the search engine on this website. Getting audio to work is also outlined somewhere within the Anki user manual, found on the Anki website.

Sorry about that, I downloaded the anki deck with audio in it already. Even when I hit "r" it still doesn't work that's why I was asking. [EDIT] I'll check the anki forum thanks though.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - uisukii - 2013-07-04

The media files (.mp3 files) aren't contained in the deck. Where did you download the deck from? Was it this one?
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3629073626

Anyhow, I have the same deck, just downloaded from a different place. You should have obtained 2 folders from this. The names may differ, but for example, the core10k deck I am using came with "Core10kv4.anki" (this is the Anki deck file) and "Core10kv4.media". The "media" folder is where all of the mp3 files should be. All of these .mp3 file need to be placed directly in the Anki "collection.media" folder, as this is where Anki grabs the file from to automatically play it while reviewing (or browsing) the card. For example, this is the file path on my computer which houses the media files:

Quote:C:\Users\Chris\Documents\Anki\User 1\collection.media

I am using Anki 2 (or whatever the new Anki is officially called). If you cannot find a solution, you should be able to follow what I've outlined above, using this core10 deck:

http://depositfiles.com/files/r0ybdvurz

Found in this thread-post:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=159749#pid159749

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ryanjmack - 2013-07-04

Thanks uisukii,

I was trying to use the optimized core 6k but I couldn't figure out how to import the audio. Instead I downloaded the one you posted (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3629073626). Thanks for the help I appreciate it.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - killazys - 2013-07-10

The new card order for the RTK deck is sorted by Heisig number, not 2K1 Odyssey. I can't figure out a way to change new card order. Any advice?

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2013-07-10

killazys,

You pretty much have to re-import the deck from a sorted spreadsheet to get it to show in 2k1 order. However, the deck is meant to be learned in RTK order. You're just shown only those kanji that are in the 555 kanji from the first book of 2k1 Odyssey. 2k1 Odyssey order is a great for learning vocabulary words, so the vocab decks based on frequency are sorted in 2k1 order.

To summarize: 2k1 tells you which kanji you should learn first, while RTK tells you the order. Frequency lists determine which vocabulary words you should learn first, while 2k1 is used to organize that list.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - killazys - 2013-07-10

Nukemarine,

Thanks so much! Especially for going through all the effort and giving this guide to the entire community..

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - adamus - 2013-07-30

First of all, many thanks to all you wonderful people who helped create all of this.
I'm rather puzzled by all of the indexes, though. For example, for N3 the guide says,

Quote:Optimized Kore 2k/6k next 500 words; for Anki unsuspend 336-387 and 1065-1513

Do those numbers refer to "Core-index", "Opt-Voc-Index", or is just to the order of the cards in Anki?
Thanks in advance.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - KanjiMood - 2013-08-16

Coming off RTK already, I'm not sure "optimized" is the best way forward - has the deck order just been changed? Today I had to learn evening, lunch, breakfast, dinner, supper in this order. Lol these words are ultra similar and its just impossible to remember properly. If they're broken up in a different order in the original core I would of preferred that.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - RawToast - 2013-08-16

adamus Wrote:First of all, many thanks to all you wonderful people who helped create all of this.
I'm rather puzzled by all of the indexes, though. For example, for N3 the guide says,

Quote:Optimized Kore 2k/6k next 500 words; for Anki unsuspend 336-387 and 1065-1513
Do those numbers refer to "Core-index", "Opt-Voc-Index", or is just to the order of the cards in Anki?
Thanks in advance.

I used "Opt-Voc-Index", but I'd like to see Nukemarine give us a concrete answer (he probably has, but it will be lost in this huge thread.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - muteki99 - 2013-08-16

I used "Opt-Voc-Index" as well and ignored the instructions in the OP about suspending/un-suspending, just went in anki order. I believe those were only applicable to the older non-optimized deck.

Going through it this way though, for me I like the optimization. It makes it easier to learn the readings when the same ones are used in different words close to one another. Sure there are many that have similar meanings but that was all over the place in RTK too and at least here you have the pictures to help you differentiate. Don't know what I will do after 2k and I have no more pictures though...I'm very much a visual learner and they help a lot.

Only other downside I see to the optimized order is you really aren't learning by frequency. There are N1, N2 words mingled in with N5 words. But like RTK, if you have committed to going through the whole 2k/6k/10k this shouldn't be a problem.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2013-08-17

Yes, use the "Opt-Voc-Index".

@kanjimood, I understand you see it as a problem, but others see it as a benefit. There's benefit in grouped meanings to learn words in mass. That's why many textbooks teach vocabulary based on rooms of the house or job locations. With optimized core, you get similar words put together to learn which forces you to realize their similarities and differences. This can be beneficial when it comes to active and passive verbs, days of the week on top of noticing kanji's onyomi and kunyomi.

Now, if you are having a problem, there's no rule against suspending a card. If you think too many of a similar type are being introduced, just suspend the extras and learn them a little later.

@Meteki99, technically you are learning by frequency but in bulk groups instead of individual order. In this case, the frequency is based off of Japanese newspaper articles as it was the most readily available at the time iKnow created Core 2000. As such, its a different metric to whatever the powers that be used to determine what words go into the N5, N4 ... N1 lists. Regardless, the list does use frequency to get a group of words that are then sorted.

Assume there are 50,000 words. The list would take the top 4% (2000 words) and sort those in an easier to learn order. It then takes the next 4% and repeats the process. Its an easier matter to use smaller groups. True, I fudged with a bit using the KO2k1 book 1 to limit which words are first learned but the impact should have been minimal. A few common words like 大丈夫 are impacted due to using an less common kanji for instance.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - KanjiMood - 2013-08-17

Yeah it's mostly beneficial I agree. I just like to complain when it takes longer than usual to complete my vocab learning Tongue

There's just a few grouping of words that particularly annoy me.. like those one I mentioned and also the days of the week, the numbers of "things" and days. Though today was a grouping of 方 words which make a lot more sense when grouped together.

For the annoying groups I recommend suspending over half of them for your sanity early on Tongue

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - muteki99 - 2013-08-17

I see what you are saying about the bulk groups.

When I hit 1000 on the optimized index I threw everything in a spreadsheet and highlighted the ones I knew and started comparing the optimized index to the default index. All the cards <2K in the optimized index are also all <2K in the default index. So it is like when the index was being optimized, the bulk group of the first 2K was reordered for ease of learning.

I didn't see any patterns for 2k~6k but wasn't looking closer either. I couldn't tell at the time if the next 2k were considered a group or just the remaining 4k was optimized as a whole.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Omar_Zupial - 2013-08-18

Nukemarine Wrote:Yes, use the "Opt-Voc-Index".

So in summary, after go to "Edit"-> "Select all"->"Suspend", I go to "Field" settings, select "Optimized-Voc-Index" and mark "Sort by this field", then unsuspend something like 1-335 and 401-565.
Maybe you should add this as a little tutorial in the first post.

And just to confirm, is this the Tae Kim Grammar deck the one you mention in the first page?

Sorry if I bother you and thanks in advance!

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - muteki99 - 2013-09-04

Anyone else find the Tae Kim deck pretty vague at times with what it presents you on the front of the card (just the sentence)? For each card my thought process is figuring out what grammar point is being illustrated, to recalling the grammar point, and reformatting it so the answer fits in the sentence.

After getting through 200 essential sentences often I find myself having trouble figuring out what grammar point is even being illustrated in the card. In my head, looking at just the sentence, there seem to be many different acceptable answers that could be used. For some, I have resorted to just memorizing the sentence to recall the missing piece, but this seems silly in a deck that is supposed to be reinforcing grammar.

I have gone through and added a field to the first 50 essential sentences that contains the section header from which the card originated, to see if that helps. Did anyone else run into this?

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - DrJones - 2013-09-04

You can also change the color of certain words in the sentence, if you want to mark a specific grammar point.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - ryanjmack - 2013-09-04

muteki99 Wrote:Anyone else find the Tae Kim deck pretty vague at times with what it presents you on the front of the card (just the sentence)? For each card my thought process is figuring out what grammar point is being illustrated, to recalling the grammar point, and reformatting it so the answer fits in the sentence.

After getting through 200 essential sentences often I find myself having trouble figuring out what grammar point is even being illustrated in the card. In my head, looking at just the sentence, there seem to be many different acceptable answers that could be used. For some, I have resorted to just memorizing the sentence to recall the missing piece, but this seems silly in a deck that is supposed to be reinforcing grammar.

I have gone through and added a field to the first 50 essential sentences that contains the section header from which the card originated, to see if that helps. Did anyone else run into this?

I was in the same position as you not too long ago. I assume your doing production cards.. It will be easier if you switch to recognition. Personally I think just understanding the grammar is more practical. Once you dive in to sentence decks and native materials, you will start to identify grammar patterns. You will begin to develop some intuition about grammar.

If you just copy and past the sentence answer to the front of the card or you could reformat the cards. Either way the grammar part of the sentence will be highlighted in blue, read the sentence and pay extra attention to the grammar point that is being made.

Also if you don't do it yet, I recommend using the TTS (text to speech) add on in anki to add audio to your cards.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - uisukii - 2013-09-05

Nukemarine (and/or others) I have a stupid question in relation to the optimized japanese vocabulary 2k/6k deck I'm using: when people talk about "production cards", is this essentially the same thing? That is, the vocabulary item in English and having to recall the correct Japanese equivalent?

For whatever reason the thought came to mind during reviews today.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - Nukemarine - 2013-09-05

uisukii,

Yes, by production I meant English word to Japanese word. Recognition is Japanese word to meaning/concept.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - uisukii - 2013-09-06

Thanks for the speedy response.

Without delving too much into the whole production/recognition debate- would it be fair to say that how you have set up this deck may very well possibly provide the framework for a deeper level of comprehension than as per what you've described as recognition?

Either way, I must say that the way in which you've optimised this deck is simply outstanding for learning. Does remind me of RTK.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - muteki99 - 2013-09-06

ryanjmack Wrote:I was in the same position as you not too long ago. I assume your doing production cards.. It will be easier if you switch to recognition. Personally I think just understanding the grammar is more practical. Once you dive in to sentence decks and native materials, you will start to identify grammar patterns. You will begin to develop some intuition about grammar.

If you just copy and past the sentence answer to the front of the card or you could reformat the cards. Either way the grammar part of the sentence will be highlighted in blue, read the sentence and pay extra attention to the grammar point that is being made.

Also if you don't do it yet, I recommend using the TTS (text to speech) add on in anki to add audio to your cards.

Those are good suggestions, I might look into switching to recognition. I have done production-only everything so far, but I can see the value in both.

Right now I am having technical difficulties getting my new field to show up in reviews, but once I sort that out if I am still having trouble might try recognition next.

edit: I had added the field to the deck in the browser, but not included it in the formatting of the card. Did that and now the new field shows up.

Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners - undead_saif - 2013-09-06

uisukii Wrote:Either way, I must say that the way in which you've optimised this deck is simply outstanding for learning. Does remind me of RTK.

I agree, it's noticeable, thank you Nuke Smile

But sometimes I find very strange words for a beginner, like 交通費, early in the deck. Not many though!