Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Printable Version

+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: JLPT, Jobs & College in Japan (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-12.html)
+--- Thread: Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity (/thread-5083.html)

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - RaySan - 2010-02-24

Hey guys!

I have a job opportunity in Tokyo where I must be capable of using daily conversational Japanese - no reading no writing. I have 10 months to go from zero to conversational in an IT environment so no fancy stuff :-). I have around 10 hours per week to spend on this goal.

I've been told by an inside source (friend) that I must focus on listening ability as I will be doing that a lot over the phone and face to face. So my question is what do you guys beleive is the best strategy here?

I was thinking of the following:

1.Tae Kim > for sentence structure and verb forms etc
2.Vocab lists > smart.fm, KO2001 etc
3.After building 6000-10000 vocab using the sentences from same sources
4.Sentence mining dramas based in a professional/office/business setting
5.IT vocab
6.Listening to Japanese as much as I can throughout the day

I am considering using Anki where the question will be the vocab audio in japanese and the answer is the English translation.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track? How would you do it?

Thanks in advance!

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - bodhisamaya - 2010-02-24

Since you only have 10 months to focus on listening, stick to very simple listening only material:

Smart.fm sentences This is the first list of sentences in the core series. Just listen to the sentences, repeat and read the English translation.

Some easy youtube channels:
サザエさん a very popular children's anime
まんが日本昔ばなし Old children's stories

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Codexus - 2010-02-24

Sorry to be blunt but that doesn't seem very realistic. Even with unlimited free time, that would be really hard to achieve that goal but some people can do it. With only 10 hours a week, I just don't see that happening.

Also skipping written Japanese entirely isn't going to make things any faster.

What you might achieve in that time frame with that kind of commitment is some basic notions, but meaningful conversations about IT, no way.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - mezbup - 2010-02-24

Your goal is pretty ambitious to say the least... If I we're you I'd do a crap load of grammar study from the get go, not focus too much on reading/writing cos you won't be needing it (so you say) and do a hell of a lot of drills aimed at producing correct sentences. Build vocab but not just for recognition or you'll find you can't use it in conversation, you ought to make sure you can produce it in a sentence from memory.

A study of up to JLPT2 grammar is advisable as well.

Really reading IT websites, magazines, journals, blogs would sort out the IT vocab problem. Not really an option of you can't read though and I don't see another way except for working in the field to acquire functional working knowledge of this.

The dorama idea is a good one, hopefully you can find the kind your looking for and then hopefully they have subs or you can find the script on doramanote. You don't necessarily need to be able to read to use those things because you have the help of Rikaichan so you can just mouse over everything but it's far less than ideal. Still... it'd work.

Sounds like you need to have started yesterday!

頑張ってください！

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - nadiatims - 2010-02-24

to OP: I'm sure your boss doesn't actually expect you to be conversational in 10 months, and is just saying that to make sure you at least make some effort. I think an experienced polyglot using tried and tested techniques customised to their own strengths could do it but if this is your first attempt at learning a language it could be really tough because it takes a certain amount of experience to understand how the language learning process really works. It may seem like you're flying blind for a while. That said I think your best bet would be learn hiragana. Then go through a beginners textbook. Go through it quickly and don't get stuck on minor details. The idea is to get a rough overview of how Japanese grammar works. Don't worry about memorizing sentences, but instead focus on understanding sentence structure particularly (particle use, word order and so on). Practice thinking in the language. Use the patterns you learn to construct original sentences in your head. Don't worry about mistakes, these can be addressed later. The idea is to rapidly build a rough framework of japanese grammar so you can start to express ideas and guess at figure out what people are saying rather than just relying on memorized phrases. In this process, SRS every new word that isn't seemingly obscure. Use any spare time on buses/trains etc to listen to something in the target language even if you don't understand it. Carry a notepad around and write down any new word as you learn it. SRS it so you don't forget it. Finally go through a phrasebook and memorise as much as you can.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - wccrawford - 2010-02-24

Please don't take this as a 'You can't do it' post, I'm just trying to make you have a more realistic goal.

I have been studying Japanese for 2.5-3 years at 10 hours or so a week (that includes time watching and reading, not just pure-study time) and I'm not at the point you want to be at. In fact, I'd say conversationally, I'm at the point you -need- to be at, minimum.

I can barely understand what people are talking about, if they are slow and use simple words without complex grammar.

My goals were different than yours... My first goal was reading, so that I could use reading to improve my vocab instead of studying... So the time element is a little different...

If I were you, this is what I'd do:

Pick situations that you want to be able to understand and study them directly. Meeting and greeting someone is your obvious first step, and a lot of books/methods start there anyhow.

Study the individual vocab from them, then study the grammar and the cultural differences for that setting.

Subscribe to JapanesePod101.com. Why? Because you're going to pick listen to the first few episodes of the beginner season in full, then switch to only listening to the conversation and vocab with translations. They say WAY too much crap in English that has nothing to do with what you're studying and you'll waste 3/4 of your time if you always listen to the full podcast. (You need the first few to understand the format.) You need to subscribe because the cut-up version that only has what you want is only available to subscribers.

Hire a tutor! A full class will only slow you down. You need to find a tutor that will teach you exactly what you want and practice it with you. They also need to help you with pronunciations. Have them script out situations for you that you can't find from podcasts or TV shows or whatever.

Watch JDrama. Not the really cool scifi ones and such... The boring boy-meets-girl slice-of-life ones that show every day life. They'll show you how to react in situations and what to expect.

Once you think you've got a handle on things (in about 6 months or more) start finding audio podcasts on the net that are by normal people talking about their normal boring lives. If I can find the link to the site I found, I'll post it back here later.

And good luck!

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Grinkers - 2010-02-24

"daily conversational Japanese" can really mean a lot of things. I've met westerners in IT in Japan and "daily conversational Japanese" for them is just "able to survive".

I suggest you find out exactly what you need. It might be easier or harder than you think. However more importantly, you'll have a more solid goal to attain.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - wccrawford - 2010-02-24

dennybritz Wrote:- Like stated above, JPod101 may be a good investment though I personally find them a little annoying

So very, very annoying. Hence the 'pay' and use the dialog-only bits. Wink

dennybritz Wrote:Find Japanese friends, or an language exchange partner. No need to pay a tutor. Tell him/her to speak with you in Japanese and correct your mistakes. Go through various situations, etc.

I agree that it can be done with a language partner, if you don't mind wearing them out with it. A tutor is getting paid to deal with it, and ideally has already tutored others, so they understand what you need to learn and how to help you with it a little better.

I'm not saying it can't be done that way, but with 10 months... Well, your economy should be on time and not money.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - wccrawford - 2010-02-24

dennybritz Wrote:~30-40h/month professionally personal tutoring will probably be extremely expensive

Insanely so! No, I meant meet with a tutor twice a week for an hour to have some targetted lessons. That's already going to be expensive enough, and a good tutor will give you homework to practice things for next time.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Codexus - 2010-02-24

So you guys really think it's possible to go from zero to conversational in a work environment with only 400 hours of study? Don't misunderstand me, I wish the OP to be successful but it looks like he's going to base important life decisions based on that fact. He deserves a realistic opinion.

Personally, I have studied a lot more than that, and also spent a lot of time enjoying Japanese media and in terms of understanding alone I'm very far from being able to function in Japanese work environment. (also I have near zero output abilities, but it's a choice to leave that for later)

Just focusing on speaking isn't going to help. You still have to learn the massive amount of vocabulary necessary. Learning compound words without learning the kanji they are based on is a terrible hindrance not a shortcut.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - wccrawford - 2010-02-24

Codexus Wrote:So you guys really think it's possible to go from zero to conversational in a work environment with only 400 hours of study? Don't misunderstand me, I wish the OP to be successful but it looks like he's going to base important life decisions based on that fact. He deserves a realistic opinion.

Personally, I have studied a lot more than that, and also spent a lot of time enjoying Japanese media and in terms of understanding alone I'm very far from being able to function in Japanese work environment. (also I have near zero output abilities, but it's a choice to leave that for later)

Just focusing on speaking isn't going to help. You still have to learn the massive amount of vocabulary necessary. Learning compound words without learning the kanji they are based on is a terrible hindrance not a shortcut.

I think it's unlikely that he will actually spend 10 solid hours each week in the hard study needed to get 400 study hours in, and I think it unlikely that he'll get enough listening hours in each weak around those hours.

I do, however, think it's possible to learn enough (via the method I described above) to live in Japan and 'get by' in a work environment that is aware of his level of Japanese and wants to hire him.

And I'll be honest, if 10 years ago someone had offered me the chance to learn enough Japanese in 10 months to work there, I'd have jumped at the chance, even knowing that there's a good probability that I won't learn enough, or will get there and not be able to make ends meet after all. And I wouldn't have even had the advice I gave above!

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - pm215 - 2010-02-24

wccrawford Wrote:I do, however, think it's possible to learn enough (via the method I described above) to live in Japan and 'get by' in a work environment that is aware of his level of Japanese and wants to hire him.

Yes, I think it's about matching expectations, if you'll forgive the corporate-speak. If they have a reasonable idea in advance about what they're getting this will work out much better than a nasty surprise on day one...

Actually, rereading the OP it's not clear whether this is a semi-done-deal for ten months out, or something more like "I hear the opening is coming up and will be applying for it in nine months time"...

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - ocircle - 2010-02-24

Gosh.. only 10 months?

I think if I was about to move to Russia in 10 months, I'd be listening to as much Pimsleur as I can. Being able to read is nice but not immediately necessary -- for the most part speech is going to be the most important (and essential!) tool to survival and communication in another country.

However I don't think it's realistic to attain business level Japanese in 10 months. Even if you were Korean it'd be a little tough.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Offshore - 2010-02-24

I don't want to put you down or anything but I have to agree with some of the other posters that 10 months with so little study time is gonna be very difficult. Especially if your knowledge of Japanese is zero.

While I do agree that you could learn basic conversation skills in that time frame, I'm iffy as to whether it'll be sufficient for an IT environment. As others have said, if your employer is well aware of your situation and is willing to work with it a bit, I would imagine this will be much easier to plan for as opposed to your employer being under the impression that come your first day, you will have no problem conversing in Japanese with anyone on the job.

Also something to think about, because you won't need to read/write apparently, kanji and kana won't need to be studied, which means any non-listening study you do is gonna have to be in romaji, which is just setting you up for nightmares down the road if you plan on progressing any further in Japanese. Especially if you're going to actually be living in Japan.

I would suggest learning the kana at some point because, in my opinion, there is nothing in Japanese that has so many benefits for so little time needed to study it.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - mezbup - 2010-02-24

くだらない質問があるんですけど、what kind of work will you be doing in the IT field?

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - RaySan - 2010-04-16

Hey guys!

Just wanted to say thanks for your feedback and give an update.

I decided not to pursue this opportunity but instead to work on attaining fluency in Japanese.

My goal is to set up a business in Tokyo in the next 7 years or so. Hopefully this will be sufficient time to achieve fluency.

@ Mezbup: Information Security.

Daily conversational Japanese for IT Opportunity - Sebastian - 2010-04-16

I haven't read completely this thread, so sorry if my post is a bit off, but if your goal is to reach fluency in Japanese and to work and live in Japan in 7 years from now, probably to start living and working in Japan in 10 months (or a bit less now) is a great option too (probably the best). If you start living in Japan in 10 months, it wouldn't surprise me if you reach fluency in less than 7 years. At the sime time, in 7 years you would have accumulated a lot of experience and contacts that would pave your way to your ultimate goal.

Besides, there's always the chance that you realize that living in Japan is not your thing. You could use this chance to have a taste of what would be like spending the rest of your life there.