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Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-19
The purpose of this thread is to share and discuss different ways to increase the efficiency of sentence reviews. Please post and discuss the techniques you use when reviewing sentences, especially if you're amongst those who claim to go through 100-200 sentence reviews in an hour.
Sentence Review Efficiency - Codexus - 2010-02-19
Well, I don't think that 200 an hour is particularly fast. According to my Anki statistics my average answer time is 13.4 seconds or 268 sentences/hour (well actually I have a few isolated words in my deck but at least 95% of the cards are sentences). In reality I'll take breaks so my real speed isn't as high.
I take my time to make sure I learn and I don't try to go as fast as possible. Sometimes if I've just recently failed a card and the sentence is long I'll just see if I remember the word I didn't remember and not read it again but other than that I don't have any special trick.
I think the problem isn't so much the time that it takes as the fact that just reviewing sentence after sentence like a robot isn't much fun.
Sentence Review Efficiency - Grinkers - 2010-02-19
I review sentences at an average of about 15 seconds, so that's 240/hour. I'm sure I could go much faster if I tried, but I find actually starting the reviews much more time consuming. If I focus I can finish my cards in less than 2 hours, but it usually turns into 3+ hours if you include time wasted while procrastinating.
As far as being able to review at faster speeds, I think it'll just come naturally as you read more and more. For example reading this post in English would probably take you less than 20 seconds, and it has 4-5 pretty long sentences.
Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-19
What I'm looking for is detailed descriptions of specific techniques that are useful for improving sentence review efficiency.
If the problem is that reviewing sentences is dull, then what specifically can be done to make them less dull? There's been plenty of past discussions about timeboxing, dividing reviews into chunks, etc. I think it'd be worthwhile to have all of these techniques compiled in this thread for the sake of centralization.
Anyway, I'll mention some of the things that have been slowing my sentence reviews down in order to provoke discussion (my average time per answer is 24.1 seconds).
1. If I read a sentence very slowly or haphazardly, I try to re-read it again smoothly and at a natural pace.
2. If I cannot read a sentence or if I read it incorrectly, I review the problematic words/grammatical elements right away (while on the same flashcard).
3. Usually, when I encounter an unfamiliar word in a sentence, I reference it in a dictionary in order to quickly note its full range of meanings.
4. If a card has audio, I will sometimes replay it in order to get a feel for the correct pronunciation.
5. Sometimes I linger on sentences because I feel like I can get it correct if I just have a few more seconds.
Clearly, I can avoid wasting time by just not doing any of the things I mentioned. However, I have doubts about whether doing so is a good idea.
As far as techniques I use, here's what I do:
1. If I'm having problem with just a single word or grammar point in a sentence, then I don't even re-read the entire sentence, but re-peat the word in my head or review the grammar point.
2. I fail the sentence if it's taking me too long to read.
3. I review in small chunks throughout the day in order to avoid reviewing fatigue.
Sentence Review Efficiency - ToasterMage - 2010-02-19
>If the problem is that reviewing sentences is dull, then what specifically can be done to make them less dull?
don`t add dull sentences.
Sentence Review Efficiency - Squintox - 2010-02-19
Read the sentence which should create an image in your head, if the image is correct, move on... Takes about ~10 seconds a card. 300 sentences an hour. I timebox in 10 minute sessions though, who sits down for an hour to review 300 sentences? O_o (that might be the problem if you find yourself reviewing too slowly).
Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-19
ToasterMage Wrote:>If the problem is that reviewing sentences is dull, then what specifically can be done to make them less dull?Haha, that question was just meant to illustrate that I'm looking for specific answers to specific questions. Even though you read it quite literally, thanks for the answer.
don`t add dull sentences.
On another note: what study options on anki has anyone found useful for faster reviews?
Sentence Review Efficiency - kerosan41 - 2010-02-19
200 per hour seems blazing fast to me. Don't any of you write anything out for each review? I usually write out at least one compound per sentence, or if the sentence is new, I copy out the whole sentence.
Sentence Review Efficiency - gyuujuice - 2010-02-19
" I timebox in 10 minute sessions though, who sits down for an hour to review 300 sentences? O_o (that might be the problem if you find yourself reviewing too slowly)."
O_o I do. I do 360 in an hour or around 180 if I only have 30 minutes to study.
Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-19
@gyuujuice
How do go through your sentence reviews?
Sentence Review Efficiency - Nukemarine - 2010-02-20
kerosan41 Wrote:200 per hour seems blazing fast to me. Don't any of you write anything out for each review? I usually write out at least one compound per sentence, or if the sentence is new, I copy out the whole sentence.My reviews have gotten that fast just due to how I changed up whether I write out something during reviews.
What I notice when it comes to writing out something during reviews is it changes as I go along from beginner to intermediate to advanced. Early on I wrote out everything, but that slowly evolves to writing out almost nothing during reviews or even when I initially add anything.
Assume you review via sentences (grammar, vocabulary, or a mix of the two). To write out the entire sentence each review is GREAT if you're just starting out. You get writing practice that builds a skill that at that point is lower than a 5 year old.
Soon, this will get annoying so change it up so that maybe you write out just a vocabulary word or grammar point of the sentence, while only writing out the entire sentence when you first add it.
Soon, even that will get annoying as you find writing out words and grammar points you know is boring or tedious. Maybe you switch it up to write out only the ones you get wrong, but still write out new sentences.
Soon, even that gets tedious so you don't even write out wrong words. By this time, you have the ability it write so now it's just wasting time that could be reviewing. However, you built yourself up to that point. You didn't take someone's advice "Well, I never write anything longer than a Post-it while in Japan" and assume you never needed to build the ability to write.
Hell, take this further and soon you remove sentences from learning vocabulary. Jarvik just does vocab reviews with isolated words (though he got them from stuff he likes to read, and he is past JLPT 1 and Kanken 5 level) and I think IceCream said she just did Core 6k as vocabulary only (did not use the sentences). Although I think IceCream did Core 2k with sentences so it's not like she started out that way, but built into it.
So kerosan, don't be surprised that you make the way you review become faster by reducing things you do during review. That doesn't mean what you end up doing should be what you should have always done. What works when you have a base to build off (kanji, grammar points, vocabulary, basic knowledge) is not the same when you didn't even have that base.
For those that follow AJATT advice, Khatsumoto posted a pic on twitter a while back saying he now only writes down words he gets wrong. A far cry from his initial advice to write out each sentence. But both sets of advice is correct, at distinct points in one's study.
Sentence Review Efficiency - Evil_Dragon - 2010-02-20
kerosan41 Wrote:200 per hour seems blazing fast to me. Don't any of you write anything out for each review? I usually write out at least one compound per sentence, or if the sentence is new, I copy out the whole sentence.Only those that I fail.
I usually read the sentence (or vocabulary item) aloud (95% are recognition cards), rate it according to how fast I was able to read it and go straight to the next one. Anything else would take up way to much time. This way I do about 50-70 cards per 5 minutes.
I suppose with pure vocabulary decks 150+ cards per 5 minutes are entirely possible.
Sentence Review Efficiency - mezbup - 2010-02-20
Evil_Dragon Wrote:I suppose with pure vocabulary decks 150+ cards per 5 minutes are entirely possible.we're not all computers, robots and study machines! My pure vocab deck usually lets me do around 500 an hour.
Sentence Review Efficiency - Evil_Dragon - 2010-02-20
mezbup Wrote:we're not all computers, robots and study machines! My pure vocab deck usually lets me do around 500 an hour.Of course, everybody should learn in a way they're comfortable with.
Forcing more reps than one is comfortable with would probably result in a reverse effect.
Sentence Review Efficiency - mezbup - 2010-02-20
Evil_Dragon Wrote:yeah, that's exactly why a pure vocab deck works for me I think. I can get how much I want done in the time frame I'm comfortable. Granted I needed full sentence reviews during KO but I payed the price with the time it took me aye.mezbup Wrote:we're not all computers, robots and study machines! My pure vocab deck usually lets me do around 500 an hour.Of course, everybody should learn in a way they're comfortable with.
An idea just occurred to me now... a little off topic but still kinda related to efficiency. In training writing output why not have Anki cards that test a whole word family at a time (possibly 10 or so words) because I find mostly the root word is the same in them and there's just little things here and there about the words that make them different. Could work though I can see it's got it's downsides. Never thought about it before though...
Sentence Review Efficiency - chochajin - 2010-02-20
@Nukemarine: Interesting read.
I've been meaning to ask you for a while now what exactly you learn when you say "writing"?! Is it writing neatly as in writing like a native speaker? Is it being able to produce the correct kanji for kana words? Is it both? I'd really love to hear more about that
Sentence Review Efficiency - Nukemarine - 2010-02-20
Chochajin,
I mean physically writing out the word, nothing more. I'm not testing my writing, but by using it in the review process it improved as a by-product. Sort of like when I use the typing in answer via Anki to improve my typing in Japanese as a by-product. It's not a major skill to have, as many point out. Out of Listening, reading, speaking and writing I'd put writing at the end in order of usefulness. Still, it's useful in part especially for guys like me that plan to live in Japan for a long time.
For vocabulary where I have a sentence reference, I go kana to kanji which is a good candidate to write out words. Yesterday, I just decided to not write out anything during reviews for reasons which meshed with this thread topic.
After hearing all the success people are having with just straight vocabulary without sentences I'll try those as Kanji to Understanding without writing.
Sentence Review Efficiency - rich_f - 2010-02-20
Heh, I just read what Nukemarine wrote, and I do a lot of the same things. I only write out words I get wrong at this point... and even then only if I feel like it. Although I'll still trace out the kanji in a kana to kanji sentence with my finger if they're not common.
I still review sentences at this point, though, because I still want context, and I still have uses to looking at sentences. My sentences are getting shorter, but I've noticed that if they get too short, or if it's just the vocab word, it doesn't seem to be as effective for me.
Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-20
This may be too obvious a question, but do most of the 200+ sentences/hour people here use the keyboard shortcuts on anki?
Sentence Review Efficiency - rich_f - 2010-02-20
Yes.
Sentence Review Efficiency - vileru - 2010-02-22
For those who use Anki, what study options have you found to be most useful?