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Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - gfb345 - 2010-07-28
I've noticed that in kanji that can be cleanly split into a left- (hen) and right-hand (tsukuri) side (which I'll call L-R kanji, but I'd like to know the proper term for them), some elements "dominate" others in the L-R placement. Consider, for example, 離 and 檎. In these examples, the 离 element is the "weaker" one relative to 隹 or 木, respectively. In L-R kanji, 隹 is invariably on the right [1], so it is a "right-side dominant" element. Consequently, in 離 the "weaker" 离 primitive "yields" the right-side slot to 隹 and takes the left-side slot. Similarly, in L-R kanji, 木 is "left-side dominant", so in 檎 the "weaker" 离 takes the right-side slot, "yielding" the left-side slot to 木. Dominance is not absolute; there are degrees of it. For example the typically left-side-dominant 木 cedes the left-side slot to a stronger left-side dominant element like 亻, as seen in 休.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are other similar placement dominance rules for other kanji classes (e.g. top-bottom, etc.).
Does anyone know of any systematic analysis of kanji along these lines? (In particular, it would be useful to have a chart showing the strong left-side- and right-side-dominant elements.)
TIA!
[1] 隹 can appear on the left, as it arguably does in 勧, but if so it is never the sole LHS element.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - JimmySeal - 2010-07-28
gfb345 Wrote:I've noticed that in kanji that can be cleanly split into a left- and right-hand side (which I'll call L-R kanji, but I'd like to know the proper term for them), some elements "dominate" others in the L-R placement. Consider, for example, 離 and 檎. In these examples, the 离 element is the "weaker" one relative to 隹 or 木, respectively.This isn't news to many people here, as Dr. Heisig points it out numerous times in his book.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - gfb345 - 2010-07-28
gfb345 Wrote:Does anyone know of any systematic analysis of kanji along these lines? (In particular, it would be useful to have a chart showing the strong left-side- and right-side-dominant elements.)
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - Tobberoth - 2010-07-28
It's not about dominance. hen radicals are always put on the left, tsukuri radicals are always put on the right. 离 isn't a radical, so it's placement in a kanji is decided by the radical, it has to be on the right with a hen radical and it has to be on the left with a tsukuri radical. The same is true with any element in a kanji which isn't a proper radical.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - cangy - 2010-07-28
Primitive positioning rules
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - Katsuo - 2010-07-28
I haven't come across any chart myself; I found memorizing a few "rules" (as in the thread cangy links to) to be enough.
One of the more tricky elements, though, is mouth 口. Below are lists of characters in RTK1&3 where it takes up the complete height of one side.
lhs: 唱吐味唯吸唆喚噴呼叫嘆吟鳴嘱咲嚇哨嘲囁喋咽嘩噂咳喧喉唾叩嘘啄呪吠噛叶吻吃噺噌唄叱喰噸哩吋呎唖嘔
rhs: 如加和知釦
@Tobberoth: 离 isn't named as a primitive in RTK, but it is one of the traditional 214 radicals (no. 193).
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - JimmySeal - 2010-07-29
Katsuo Wrote:@Tobberoth: 离 isn't named as a primitive in RTK, but it is one of the traditional 214 radicals (no. 193).I think you need to enlarge your font. 离 is the left side of 離 and #193 on that list is the left side of 融. 离 isn't a radical.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - Katsuo - 2010-07-29
JimmySeal Wrote:I think you need to enlarge your font.And get some new glasses too
. Apologies to Tobberoth.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - gfb345 - 2010-07-29
cangy, Katsuo, Tobberoth: many thanks for your help!
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - Jarvik7 - 2010-07-29
Tobberoth Wrote:It's not about dominance. hen radicals are always put on the left, tsukuri radicals are always put on the right. 离 isn't a radical, so it's placement in a kanji is decided by the radical, it has to be on the right with a hen radical and it has to be on the left with a tsukuri radical. The same is true with any element in a kanji which isn't a proper radical.That is a good start, but radicals aren't innately 編 or 旁, rather those are FORMS of the radicals.
Ex: 感、慕、応、and 快 all have the heart radical, but they are in different forms and different places (したごころx2、こころ、りっしん).
That said, many radicals do only have one common form.
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - gfb345 - 2010-07-29
Tobberoth Wrote:It's not about dominance. hen radicals are always put on the left, tsukuri radicals are always put on the right. 离 isn't a radical, so it's placement in a kanji is decided by the radical, it has to be on the right with a hen radical and it has to be on the left with a tsukuri radical. The same is true with any element in a kanji which isn't a proper radical.OK, my example was not ideal, because 离 isn't a radical, but the issue of "dominance" (or "precedence") is still there, whenever one has a character that uses two "hen" or two "tsukuri" radicals side-by-side. E.g. in the case of 休, 人偏 (亻) trumps 木偏, so we can say that 亻 > 木. (To make matters worse, in some cases a "hen" and a "tsukuri" trade places, as in 加, which throws the whole hen-tsukuri classification out the window.)
The following website (in French) has lists of radicals broken down according to their type: http://www.wikijapon.com/doku.php?id=kanji:radicaux:start. (Some of the items in these lists look weird to me. E.g. 豕偏?)
Kanji chemistry: dominance rules in hen-tsukuri kanji - yudantaiteki - 2010-07-29
いのこへん; it's used mostly in old kanji forms, like 豬 (their example), which is 猪 in modern form.