Dealing with English Practicers

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Dealing with English Practicers - thistime - 2009-12-27

Okay, so I know the title is weird, but here's my question. Anytime I go out with a group of people, there is always at least one person who sees me as their chance to practice English. I wouldn't mind if it only happened once in a while or if it only lasted for a few minutes, but it seems like it happens everytime and the person is determined to "take advantage of the opportunity". I've tried kind of ignoring them when they speak English and only engaging in conversation when they are speaking Japanese. I only respond in Japanese even when they use English. When they are having a hard time saying what they are trying to say in English, I try to say at every opportunity that they can use Japanese. My husband will say, "This is Japan, you can use Japanese" in a semi joking way. But nothing seems to work. I'll even try to leave and talk to other people and the person will follow me. I don't want to be rude about it and I understand where they're coming from, but just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

So, how do I stop the people who see me as their chance to practice English? Do you have any techniques or things you say to switch the conversation to Japanese and keep it there?

Dealing with English Practicers - magamo - 2009-12-27

thistime Wrote:just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean they are interested in helping you do so.

Dealing with English Practicers - Tobberoth - 2009-12-27

magamo Wrote:
thistime Wrote:just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.
Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean they are interested in helping you do so.

But she's in Japan.

Dealing with English Practicers - kazelee - 2009-12-27

英語は分からないけど・・・

Become transparent. Don't let them gift a whiff of your foreigninity. Pretend you speak Frenchなど. Be patient and just take it. Or if it's really bothering you...

BE RUDE! jk. Be firm.

Request that they stop talking to you in English. Simply explain why it is you would rather not converse in English, and, most likely, they will stop.

Dealing with English Practicers - thistime - 2009-12-27

kazelee Wrote:英語は分からないけど・・・

Unfortunately this is people who know I'm American. Maybe I could still try it though Wink

Dealing with English Practicers - kazelee - 2009-12-27

When did I.... huh? I should get some rest because I don't ever remember even hitting the edit button. Sad

Dealing with English Practicers - Evil_Dragon - 2009-12-27

thistime Wrote:
kazelee Wrote:英語は分からないけど・・・
Unfortunately this is people who know I'm American. Maybe I could still try it though

Silly you, how could you forget about telling them how you spent most of your life in... let's say.. Italy? Wink

Dealing with English Practicers - magamo - 2009-12-27

Tobberoth Wrote:
magamo Wrote:
thistime Wrote:just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.
Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean they are interested in helping you do so.
But she's in Japan.

So what? It might be that their English is better than the OP's Japanese. In that case, it's the OP that is illogical if they're in a situation where communication is more important.

They might be thinking that the OP can have plenty of opportunities to practice her language on native speakers while they can't because it's in Japan. I kind of understand why some people try to take advantage of every opportunity they can get, especially when it's very rare to be able to speak to native speakers and the other side of person is living in the country where the target language is everywhere. Which do you think is taking advantage of native speakers when they don't need to?? I don't think it's that strange for some people to want to use English. It's strange if the OP wants to speak English in Japan though.

I also think this kind of makes sense regardless because English speakers are the ones who forced us to learn their mother tongue. The OP may not have done anything about it, but it's a fact that native English speakers as a whole imposed the language on us.

And how do you know they're actually practicing English? Did you ask why they use English??

Anyway, regardless of whether it's in Japan or America, I don't think it's the strangest thing to think "Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean I'm interested in helping you do so." Some people think like that, and you have no right whatsoever to force them to change their way of thinking.

Dealing with English Practicers - Grinkers - 2009-12-27

magamo Wrote:It might be that their English is better than the OP's Japanese.

This is generally what I've found being in Japan for half a year. At first it seemed like everybody wanted to speak to me in English only, however looking back I think it's just it was so much easier to communicate with English.

Of course there's some people who want to force English speaking with me. I find it really annoying when their English is worse than my Japanese, which I think is reversed with my Japanese. The people who try to force English despite skill levels seems less than the people who want to try English, but end up using Japanese with me.

I guess my view is just "use the easiest language". Humans always try to do the easiest thing. There's many people in Japan with very poor, or completely nonexistent, English skills. If you start speaking with them, there's no other language except Japanese to use (which makes it the easiest language to communicate with).

Anybody else in Japan have the same experience? I have a Japanese face, so I think that helps a lot too. People start conversations with me in Japanese 100% of the time, and I don't stand out to the "Look for English speakers to practice with!" people.

Dealing with English Practicers - bodhisamaya - 2009-12-27

Have a business card made up that has your hourly rate for English instruction.
Personally I don't mind when strangers approach me to practice their English.

Dealing with English Practicers - thistime - 2009-12-27

magamo Wrote:So what? It might be that their English is better than the OP's Japanese. In that case, it's the OP that is illogical if they're in a situation where communication is more important.

It's not.

magamo Wrote:And how do you know they're actually practicing English? Did you ask why they use English??

When we are out in a purely social situation, I am speaking Japanese the entire time, and I tell them repeatedly to use Japanese if English is too hard when they are struggling to speak English. Then, yeah, I would say they are practicing English.

magamo Wrote:Anyway, regardless of whether it's in Japan or America, I don't think it's the strangest thing to think "Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean I'm interested in helping you do so." Some people think like that, and you have no right whatsoever to force them to change their way of thinking.

It' not about me "practicing" Japanese. I happen to think it's a normal thing to speak Japanese to Japanese people in Japan.

Dealing with English Practicers - kazelee - 2009-12-27

@magamo

So... let me get this straight... we "as a whole" are forcing people to learn English? Come now, you know as well as the rest of us, only a handful of people are doing any sort of "forcing."

Personally, I think the OP should just take the risk of being rude. Who cares about what level who's at (learning wise), if you're not in the mood you shouldn't fill forced or obligated regardless of 'the history between your countries that is actually quite irrelevant to the situation at hand (presently; emphasis on present)'. kan0wurmz this line'o convo B

Quote:Anyway, regardless of whether it's in Japan or America, I don't think it's the strangest thing to think "Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean I'm interested in helping you do so."

The problem isn't helping itself but the amount of time spent helping.

Dealing with English Practicers - wccrawford - 2009-12-27

You don't have to be rude, you just have to tell them how rude they are being. They are forcing you into a conversation that nobody else around can join because they don't speak English well enough.

And failing that, tell them that they are making you very uncomfortable.

Dealing with English Practicers - Evil_Dragon - 2009-12-27

Grinkers Wrote:Anybody else in Japan have the same experience?

Yep. Most people just spoke Japanese to me and more often than not those who started out in English (be it because they want to practice, they wanted to be polite or god knows why) got tired after a while and switched to Japanese. When I was still starting out in Japanese it was about the same. There were lots of concepts I could not express in Japanese and I was not yet used to thinking in Japanese. So when I was talking to people we would soon switch to English, especially if the other guy was any good at it.
But then again, I never met any English practice zealots, probably because there's plenty of opportunities to talk English in Tokyo. Also I'm German, which technically makes me the second worst type of person to learn English from (right behind the French).

Dealing with English Practicers - Tobberoth - 2009-12-27

magamo Wrote:Anyway, regardless of whether it's in Japan or America, I don't think it's the strangest thing to think "Just because you think it's a good opportunity for you to practice your Japanese doesn't mean I'm interested in helping you do so." Some people think like that, and you have no right whatsoever to force them to change their way of thinking.

Regardless of the rest of your post (all of it has been covered in other posts), it's just a simple fact yes, you should expect people to help you if you are in that country. If I'm in Japan, at a Japanese party, speaking Japanese I know is well enough for any form of communication they want to attempt, I would find it VERY odd that they "don't want to help me practice Japanese". They aren't helping me in anything, they are talking to me in the language which is being used. If THEY want to switch to a language which makes little sense in the situation just because they want to practice, they are free to ask. But if it's a situation like I explained above, where Japanese is the only language which makes sense in the context, I shouldn't have to be grateful that people talk in Japanese to me. I'm in their country speaking their language, I don't need their consent to have them answer in that language.

In Sweden, if a foreigner comes up to you speaking Swedish, it's considered VERY rude to answer in English. You're basically saying to their face that you don't think their Swedish holds up, and it would have to be VERY bad for anyone to do it. I don't see how it could be any different in Japan.

Dealing with English Practicers - Nukemarine - 2009-12-27

Just speak English with them. You're surrounded by many who want to talk Japanese and one that wants to speak English. He/She's surrounded by people that only speak Japanese and one or two that speaks English. That he/she's keeping his/her half conversation in English despite the difficulty should be applauded as it's more natural to go with the stronger of the two languages.

Now, as for following you around, now that's a bit rude. Same with dominating the conversation to practice. In addition, if they're asking you what such and such means or what's the best way to say something, again it's turning a leisurely time into a training session which smacks of being rude.

Dealing with English Practicers - kazelee - 2009-12-27

Tobberoth Wrote:I don't see how it could be any different in Japan.

'In America, we drive on the "right" side of the road.'

The preceding sentence embodies the type of argumentative tangent beginning to form.

Dealing with English Practicers - thistime - 2009-12-27

IceCream Wrote:
thistime Wrote:It' not about me "practicing" Japanese. I happen to think it's a normal thing to speak Japanese to Japanese people in Japan.
the thing is this: how would you feel if it was the other way round? If you were in America and you made friends with one of the few japanese people around, would you feel that you shouldn't speak in japanese to them because its normal to speak english in america? maybe you'd just enjoy having someone to speak japanese with for a while...
of course, if they were still learning english and wanted to practise english that's cool too, but you'd probably want to split the time somehow to please both of you. It'll feel the same way for them, i guess...

Actually, I would never use Japanese with a Japanese person in America unless they personally invited me to do so. And these are not people who are friends that we make an agreement to speak English sometimes and Japanese sometimes. I would be fine with that actually and actually have some people that are friends that do want to practice there English and ask me if it would be okay and I always say yes. What I'm talking about is going to a party (with my husband's work or something) where I am meeting everyone for the first time and someone comes up to me and just starts speaking English and continues no matter how slow and ackward the conversation becomes and even after they realize I can speak Japanese.

Dealing with English Practicers - Grinkers - 2009-12-27

Evil_Dragon Wrote:English practice zealots

I've only run into a couple, but they're really annoying. Both of them had this high and mighty attitude of "I speak English, I'm better than the other Japanese around me!" and trying to use vocabulary that's way past their level (and never used in real English). It felt like they were trying to use English that the other people around us wouldn't understand, on purpose. I realize this is a huge generalization from just two people, and of all the English learners they're a tiny tiny minority, however I think they're also the ones that stand out the most too.

I'm also guessing it's these kind of people that the OP is having to deal with.

And to be fair, I know there's people learning Japanese with the same exact mentality. So I think a lot of Japanese really want to avoid these types of people too, and use English.

Dealing with English Practicers - Evil_Dragon - 2009-12-27

Tobberoth Wrote:I don't see how it could be any different in Japan.

From what I've heard people say it might be. It goes something like "Look, my English is far below average, but hey, as you can see I'm trying my best so you can feel all comfortable and don't have to make an effort speaking Japanese! (which you're not supposed to do in the first place as there's no drop of Japanese blood in your veins!)".
Give or take.

Dealing with English Practicers - Tobberoth - 2009-12-27

I would like to add as an extra point: In the rare situation that a Japanese person actually speaks better English than I speak Japanese, said person is free to tell me that he thinks the conversation might be to hard for me in Japanese and that we should take it in English, I wouldn't mind (though some people would of course) and it would at least give you options. Just answering my Japanese with English, that's downright rude.

Of course, this only pertains to being in Japan. If I meet a Japanese person in Sweden speaking to me in good English, I'm not going to force Japanese on him. I'll tell him, in English, that I speak Japanese if he wants to use it. If he doesn't, I'm not going to answer his English with Japanese. (And I've been in the situation a lot since I hang out with Japanese exchange students in Sweden. Their Swedish isn't good enough to have even a simple discussion, but some of them has lived in Australia or whatever. If such a Japanese person prefers speaking in English, I have no problem doing so, and I shouldn't have.)

Point being, where you are and what situation you're in matters a lot more than skill, even if skill is also vital, it has to be above a certain low threshold.

Dealing with English Practicers - magamo - 2009-12-27

thistime Wrote:
magamo Wrote:So what? It might be that their English is better than the OP's Japanese. In that case, it's the OP that is illogical if they're in a situation where communication is more important.
It's not.

magamo Wrote:And how do you know they're actually practicing English? Did you ask why they use English??
When we are out in a purely social situation, I am speaking Japanese the entire time, and I tell them repeatedly to use Japanese if English is too hard when they are struggling to speak English. Then, yeah, I would say they are practicing English.

Then you're in a very unusual situation. It's very rare for a Japanese person to want or need to speak English that bad. I'd say it's much less than one in a thousand. If anything, most Japanese would be scared if they have to speak English. There has to be a reason you attract those extremely rare people.

Anyway, what do you think if I said:

I'm living in the US. When I meet guys who are learning Japanese, at least one of them try to practice Japanese on me. I'm in America so they should speak English, don't you think? I'm fluent in English, so it's not that they speak Japanese because my English sucks. I'm sure they're practicing Japanese in spite of the fact that it's in America. This is annoying; just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their Japanese doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

I don't quite understand why you have a problem with that. If you really want to force them to speak Japanese, then it's your opinion so no one can do anything about that. But the above complaint sounds very strange to me. Do I tell those English speakers who try to practice Japanese on me not to speak Japanese because I'm living in the US now?? I don't want to be such a person.

If you're the kind of person who doesn't want to help learners of your mother tongue, then why don't you follow what bodhisamaya says? Mind you, people like you are really rare in non-English speaking countries.

Dealing with English Practicers - Tobberoth - 2009-12-27

I agree with magamo here. Instead of trying to run from people who want to learn English, just help them out. It's not like you have to speak to them all night, just talk to them in English for a while. Since you're speaking in Japanese to everyone else there, they will have to use Japanese with you eventually if they want to enter your conversation with the others anyway.

If said person is so extreme that he interrupts your Japanese with English when others are present etc, he's just like magamo said one in a thousand and in such a situation, you shouldn't feel bad about telling him off, rudely if needed.

Dealing with English Practicers - Sebastian - 2009-12-27

thistime Wrote:Okay, so I know the title is weird, but here's my question. Anytime I go out with a group of people, there is always at least one person who sees me as their chance to practice English. I wouldn't mind if it only happened once in a while or if it only lasted for a few minutes, but it seems like it happens everytime and the person is determined to "take advantage of the opportunity". I've tried kind of ignoring them when they speak English and only engaging in conversation when they are speaking Japanese. I only respond in Japanese even when they use English. When they are having a hard time saying what they are trying to say in English, I try to say at every opportunity that they can use Japanese. My husband will say, "This is Japan, you can use Japanese" in a semi joking way. But nothing seems to work. I'll even try to leave and talk to other people and the person will follow me. I don't want to be rude about it and I understand where they're coming from, but just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

So, how do I stop the people who see me as their chance to practice English? Do you have any techniques or things you say to switch the conversation to Japanese and keep it there?

You know, some people have this stupid idea that if they're learning a language, they should practice it... go figure...

Dealing with English Practicers - TGWeaver - 2009-12-27

thistime Wrote:Okay, so I know the title is weird, but here's my question. Anytime I go out with a group of people, there is always at least one person who sees me as their chance to practice English. I wouldn't mind if it only happened once in a while or if it only lasted for a few minutes, but it seems like it happens everytime and the person is determined to "take advantage of the opportunity". I've tried kind of ignoring them when they speak English and only engaging in conversation when they are speaking Japanese. I only respond in Japanese even when they use English. When they are having a hard time saying what they are trying to say in English, I try to say at every opportunity that they can use Japanese. My husband will say, "This is Japan, you can use Japanese" in a semi joking way. But nothing seems to work. I'll even try to leave and talk to other people and the person will follow me. I don't want to be rude about it and I understand where they're coming from, but just because they think it's a good opportunity for them to practice their English doesn't mean I am interested in helping them do so.

So, how do I stop the people who see me as their chance to practice English? Do you have any techniques or things you say to switch the conversation to Japanese and keep it there?

i used to ask them the following: "in your free time, do you enjoy doing your job?"

everyone's answer is no. i follow it with "neither do i. when i speak english in japan, it feels like work. sorry."

of course, this only works if you're an english teacher (or you can pretend to be).