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Confused on this grammatical structure... - dizmox - 2009-12-11
My friend just said "私は英検２級しか持ってないよ. TOEICは６００点あるかないか..."
Now the second part means "I usually get around 600 score on the test" according to her, but I'm not sure I understand the grammar. Can anyone deconstruct the last bit, or show me a few more examples? I tried looking up "かないか" in Denshi Jisho's example sentences, but none of them seemed to carry the same meaning. They seem to make it sound like it means "Won't I get 600 points?" or something...
Confused on this grammatical structure... - bluemarigolds - 2009-12-11
I can't give you a set answer, so take this with a tablespoon of salt. ;-)
TOEICは６００点あるかないか.
My dictionary of Japanese particles says,
"In the pattern "...ka ...ka ~か〜か," lists a number of choices. English approximation ".... or ..."
e.x. 行くのか行かないのか、どっちなの？ Are you going or not going, which is it?"
In that light, I read that sentence as something more along the lines of "I may get 600 points on the TOEIC, I may not."
I can see how your friend's explanation makes sense.
I'm not sure if this helps at all....blergh.
Confused on this grammatical structure... - magamo - 2009-12-11
I'm guessing the context is that you complimented her English or mentioned her English skills, and she did the typical "No. I'm not that good!" reply or simply she's honest/humble/modest (Read this thread if you're not familiar with the typical Japanese reply to compliments). If that's the case, what she meant was "Thanks. But, you know, I only passed the second level on Eiken, and my TOEIC score is, um, like 600... (implying passing the second level and getting 600 are not that great)."
This kind of Xあるかないか roughly means "the number/score/whatever is approximately X" and is used especially when the speaker doesn't think X is many, large, enough, good or something along those lines. For example, if someone asks you how much money you have in your bank account and if you reply, "さぁー、１００円あるかないかも怪しいな。," it means "Hmm. I don't even know if I have 100 yen in my bank account."
You can replace the verb ある so it can be used in various situations, e.g., せいぜい一日に一人来るか来ないかぐらいです。(あるかないか -> くるかこないか, We only have one or two customers per day at best.)
Another example is 私のクラスには、生徒は１０人いるかいないかぐらいです。(There are only about 10 students in my class.)
Confused on this grammatical structure... - dizmox - 2009-12-11
Thank you for the replies, I think I've got it now.
Confused on this grammatical structure... - chamcham - 2009-12-11
You're splitting up the sentence wrong. The pattern is "あるか、ないか”
Meaning "aru" as in "arimasu"
And "nai" as in "arimasen"
So literally it's "600 points aru ka, (600 points) nai ka".
This basically translates to "whether or not you get/have 600 points".