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+--- Thread: りゅ、りょ pronunciation (/thread-4503.html)
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-11-27
As the title suggest, I'm having difficulty with pronouncing りゅ、りょ、and probably りゃ too, though I've not come across a word using that particular phonetic. I always end up pronouncing them as a combination of り＋ゆ、よ - or simply as ろ、る. I have a somewhat difficult time evening hearing the difference between ろ、る and りゅ、りょ, honestly. I'm a native English speaker, as my location suggest. Any hints or tips to help get these down?
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - mezbup - 2009-11-27
略 (りゃく) 脈 (みゃく) Rare as this particular sound is there is words that use it! Those are two examples i've seen of a Xゃ combo.
It really is a combination of り＋ゆ just merged into one sound it's like you're mouth moves to make each sound in parallel rather than in series. Listen to plenty of words that use them as there is a distinct difference. E.g. 留学 (りゅうがく) vs 料理 (りょうり) sound vastly different.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - GoddessCarlie - 2009-11-27
I want to just say that I too have difficulty saying these too! I would love some tips or advice. Out of all my pronunciation it's these two that I've only ever had native speakers try and correct me. So Brandon you're not the only one.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - CKBrown1000 - 2009-11-27
For some reason, I can pronounce
りょう but not りょ, and
りゅう but not りゅ.
I find it so odd that it's easy to get the doubled vowel, but when it's just the single glide, I can't pronounce it.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - OsakaDan - 2009-11-27
You're not the only one........................
These are the two sounds I have the most trouble with. It just feels so retarded trying to move my mouth cause these sounds don't exist in English. I don't have any trouble with any other 'blends' though eg にゃ、ぴゅう、びょう、きゅう、ぎゅう etc
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - yukamina - 2009-11-27
りゅ... I'm thinking it kinda sounds like 'dew'(if you pronounce dew as 'dyoo' not 'doo')
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - mastermx - 2009-11-27
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Ryu_(Street_Fighter)
I think its pronounced like this characters name.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - DavidZ - 2009-11-27
An example I like to practice is "Sakamoto Ryuichi." Most English speakers butcher the pronunciation of his name, because that ryu sound just doesn't exist in English.
Here's a clip of the man himself saying his own name:
(around 0:08 to 0:11)
It begins, "E, konnichiwa. Sakamoto Ryuichi desu."
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - mentat_kgs - 2009-11-27
Man, if you try to rationalize with English sounds, your are doomed.
Empty your cup.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - Codexus - 2009-11-27
I haven't noticed anything difficult about those sounds, but then I'm a native French speaker so that's probably why. Or maybe I just completely missed it and I'm saying it wrong
Anyway がんばってくだせぇぇ～！
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - nest0r - 2009-11-27
Just keep listening and repeating! ;p Think of yourself as an attentive, transparent vessel, the sound goes in your ear, comes out your mouth. The movements will follow. Or something. ;p
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - wildweathel - 2009-11-27
IceCream's description is close. The middle of your tongue should start closer to your palate ("roof of the mouth") to pronounce りゃ than it is to pronounce ら, thus "palatalized." Unfortunately, that might not be helpful to know. You've probably never thought about how you pronounce things.
Basically, you have two problems at once: the new consonant sound of らりるれろ plus the distinction between palatalized and non-palatalized consonants that Japanese makes, but English does not.
First, you should be sure you're solid on the difference between ぬ／にゅ, ま／みゃ, etc for the か、が、な、ま、は、ぱ、and ば consonants. These can be surprisingly difficult for native anglophones.
Once you've acquired those consonants, the harder ones like ら should fall into place. If it's any help, yes りゅう sounds similar to "dyew." But don't take my written word for it: as always with pronunciation issues, you must listen and imitate. It's best (but not strictly required) to have a transcript and watch for the palatalized consonants.
Sentences with audio, like Core 2000 are perfect for this sort of thing.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-11-28
wildweathel Wrote:First, you should be sure you're solid on the difference between ぬ／にゅ, ま／みゃ, etc for the か、が、な、ま、は、ぱ、and ば consonants. These can be surprisingly difficult for native anglophones.I believe that I have the ら、り、る、ろ、れ sounds down fairly well, even though I've not heard any critique on my pronunciation as of yet. I think the thing that trips me up about りゅ、りょ、りゃ the most is trying to blend the り and ゆ、よ、や phonemes together, but never getting them quite at the same time. Always one comes out before the other. I think I just need to experiment more, and listen better. Still working on hearing the differences, after all.
Once you've acquired those consonants, the harder ones like ら should fall into place. If it's any help, yes りゅう sounds similar to "dyew." But don't take my written word for it: as always with pronunciation issues, you must listen and imitate. It's best (but not strictly required) to have a transcript and watch for the palatalized consonants.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - mentat_kgs - 2009-11-28
Could you please post something for us to hear?
Something like we did in this thread:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=45085#pid45085
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-11-29
mentat_kgs Wrote:Could you please post something for us to hear?Monday I will try to get around to it, if not earlier. I'll be embarrassed to do it, but I think I'll survive.
Quote:try putting your tongue up in the り position ready first, but don't move it. If you say ゆ now, the sound sort of gets stuck in your throat, and makes a weird noise. Right, so, now put your tongue back up there, but this time, at the exact time you start saying ゆ, release your tongue in the り way, and the sound will mix together. It's almost like you're trying to say the ゆ bit first / that sound is made before you start saying り, but it cant come out unless you move the tongue properly.Hmm. I think that helped a good bit, actually. I guess y'all will be the ones to decide that though.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - ocircle - 2009-12-01
Here's six words...
恐龍 (きょうりゅう): Dinosaur
下流 (かりゅう): Downstream
留学 （りゅうがく): study abroad
同僚 (どうりょう): Comrade
材料 (ざいりょう): Ingredients, materials needed
旅行 (りょこう): Traveling
I hope this sound file and hosting service works: http://www.usaupload.net/d/tpm72p7j3xx
I pronounced all of these with an R.
(I never pronounce anything with an L for Japanese except for the occasional ららら in songs -- probably a habit I picked up from Korean.)
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-12-04
ocircle Wrote:Here's six words...Nice
恐龍 (きょうりゅう): Dinosaur
下流 (かりゅう): Downstream
留学 （りゅうがく): study abroad
同僚 (どうりょう): Comrade
材料 (ざいりょう): Ingredients, materials needed
旅行 (りょこう): Traveling
I hope this sound file and hosting service works: http://www.usaupload.net/d/tpm72p7j3xx
- here's my attempt at the same thing. I'd love some feedback on it.http://www.mediafire.com/?t5kzc50djjn
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - raseru - 2009-12-04
..How do you guys have problems pronouncing it? Just because it has a R in front doesn't make it any different from saying the letter Q
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-12-04
raseru Wrote:..How do you guys have problems pronouncing it? Just because it has a R in front doesn't make it any different from saying the letter QEh? Letter Q? You lost me there.
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - raseru - 2009-12-04
Q's pronunciation is Kyuu
Just like the R from Ryuu
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - harhol - 2009-12-04
brandon7s Wrote:Here's my attempt at the same thing. I'd love some feedback on it.Disclaimer: just my novice opinion, I don't claim to be any kind of authority.
恐龍 (きょうりゅう): Dinosaur
- the りゅう sounded more like a りゅ.
下流 (かりゅう): Downstream
- sounds bad, like you got tongue-tied.
留学 （りゅうがく): study abroad
- good.
同僚 (どうりょう): Comrade
- good.
材料 (ざいりょう): Ingredients, materials needed
- perhaps not enough L in the りょ.
旅行 (りょこう): Traveling
- definitely not enough L in the りょ, get that tongue moving!
You also (understandably) sound rather nervous and there's some tremble in your voice. Try to be more chilled and monotone.
Hope this helps
(I haven't dared to record myself yet... in my head I sound amazing though
)
りゅ、りょ pronunciation - brandon7s - 2009-12-04
IceCream Wrote:hehe brandon... did you copy ocircle's pronunciation? it sounds like you will end up with a good japanese accent, because you're good at imitating. But, ocircle is korean, so it sounds like your trying to pronounce japanese with a korean accentActually, I used the WWWJDIC audio clips as guidelines. It's been about 4 days since I'd heard ocircle's audio.
as far as i can hear, your りょう etc sounds fine now, but im sure someone else can comment better than me on it ：）
harhol Wrote:You also (understandably) sound rather nervous and there's some tremble in your voice. Try to be more chilled and monotone.Yeah, I was at least a little bit nervous; and I'm sure it didn't help that I had only heard two of those words (旅行, 留学) before I recorded this piece. Oh, and I definitely gotta work on that かりゅう bit. For some reason か has a tendency to throw me off; there's a few words, even without the りゅ/りょ, that I mess up on when they have the か sound. Gonna have to analyze that issue.
And I do realize that I don't use the correct sound length most of the time when pronouncing any phrases with an extended vowel (りゅう、りょう、きゅう、こう、そう、etc). That issue is very much a work in progress, the more I listen to Japanese the better I get at that though.
Thank you for the feedback, Icecream and harhol, it's much appreciated.