KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Printable Version

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KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-07

ninetimes Wrote:I admit ignorance for now and I'm going to go to bed, if there's any great advice I'll give it another swing in the morning.

I didn't have any errors while doing the sort on the deck I created. You might want to just use the import plugin to create a deck yourself if you haven't (your field order is different so I'm guessing yours was from somewhere else). It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes really for the full deck. Also remember that with the frequency list you have to remove the second column to do the sorting. The easiest way to do that is just to modify the perl script that generates the list to only output the kanji.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Nii87 - 2010-01-07

mastermx Wrote:I deleted every single card. Then re-imported with the fields corrected.

EDIT: I just wanted to thank everyone who helped with the deck sorting. Its so much more relaxing and manageable now. It helps reinforce what you know and decreases the chance of burnout.

I'm glad it helped you mastermx. I found it helped me a lot too. the only problem was that the kanji no longer grouped in 5 thematically similar kanji, but I don't really mind.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - mistamark - 2010-01-07

Could someone do me the biggest favour and put an export of the -sorted- Core 2k deck somewhere on the interwebs so I/we can download it?

Thanks!!

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Reviewed - 2010-01-07

Being computer-incompetent, I'm needing the Core 2000 sorted deck, too... or maybe the Core 2000 + 6000 which I assume is better. Does anyone have them? I can provide the decks if necessary.

Thank you in advance.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - ninetimes - 2010-01-07

Alright well after using the advise above and started reading instructions, I got different (better?) results, but I admit I still have no idea if its sorted properly.

I did a fresh import from smart.fm of core2k, and due to the importer or... no idea what, a few here and there didn't actually download, usually on claims of being a duplicate. So instead of core2k its more like core1989. Anywho.

Initial export
Frequency results
Sorted? list

If anybody with a clue can take a look at that and let me know if it seems legitimate, that'd be pretty super.

And, as an aside, this import from smart.fm has a lot of that -- !EditReading! business (341 cards to be exact) -- which I did not go through prior to this, so if anybody actually intends to use these, assuming they're alright, keep that in mind.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-07

Here's a link to the sorted Core2000 export. The fields are in the default order that the import plugin uses so you will need to import the full deck (in order to get the audio), and then delete all the cards in the deck and do an import.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vffww7

As for doing the Core2000 and the Core6000 combined, I myself decided against it as I felt the frequency of more difficult kanji in the 6000 deck would override those in the 2000 deck being that the deck is 3x as large. I haven't checked to see if that is actually what would happen but it seemed logical since the 6000 deck is an extension "to" the 2000 deck rather than just another equivalent deck.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-08

ninetimes Wrote:I did a fresh import from smart.fm of core2k, and due to the importer or... no idea what, a few here and there didn't actually download, usually on claims of being a duplicate. So instead of core2k its more like core1989. Anywho.

Yeah there are some duplicate sentences so it does end up being slightly less than 2000.

ninetimes Wrote:If anybody with a clue can take a look at that and let me know if it seems legitimate, that'd be pretty super.

Hmm, your sorted deck still doesn't look quite right. Take a look at my previous post to see what the sorted output looks like.

ninetimes Wrote:And, as an aside, this import from smart.fm has a lot of that -- !EditReading! business (341 cards to be exact) -- which I did not go through prior to this, so if anybody actually intends to use these, assuming they're alright, keep that in mind.

There are quite a few of those. Fortunately, the import plugin knows when it happens and it places the actual kana directly above it so all you need to do is copy and paste the correct kanji readings into the [] brackets and remove the kana only line.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-08

I probably should have included this in one of my last two posts but I just wanted to mention that I'm a little over 100 sentences into the sorted core2000 deck and am loving it. I've done some of the KO2001 deck as well as the original core2000 order and was a little overwhelmed with too many new items (i+20 if you will) being the newbie that I am, and so this has been much easier.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - ninetimes - 2010-01-08

Cool, thanks for the deck post. I'll keep playing around with it as I find time just because at this point it's an amusing challenge (and I'm stubborn), but I may just end up using your deck interim.

I have a couple ideas as to where it might have gone wrong.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Reviewed - 2010-01-08

Thank you for the deck, it really is comfortable to use.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - intermu - 2010-01-08

I couldn't get the audio in the deck, although I got it all sorted out. Any pointers on what's wrong?

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - mistamark - 2010-01-08

Wow! Thank you for that!!

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - cangy - 2010-01-08

aphasiac Wrote:I've just realised the new order is based on the frequency of *all the kanji* in that sentence.

Should make it easier overall, though would be nicer if they were sorted on number of kanji in the sentence also, to make everything even more i+1.

the sort is on the order of the kanji in the kanji-sort-order file, so it's frequency if you use a frequency file

I originally thought it would be best to sort so that the minimum number of new kanji are introduced at each step, and have a script in my head to find a reasonable heuristic approximation of that which I might write out if I get time, though sorting on frequency is going to get reasonably close anyway for non-pathological input

but now I think it's better that kanji are introduced at an even rate, rather than the minimum rate (with a sharper increase later), and looking at the graphs, the ko2001 order is actually better for that (closer to a straight diagonal line) then the frequency order

chameleoncoder Wrote:Also remember that with the frequency list you have to remove the second column to do the sorting.

here's a new version of kanji-sort which will work with the unmodified output of kanji-freq. it also will warn and use the first occurrence of a duplicate kanji in the sort-order file (instead of the last) so you can combine sort-order files without needing to remove duplicates.

http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/ContribFugounashi#kanji-sort

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Reviewed - 2010-01-08

intermu Wrote:I couldn't get the audio in the deck, although I got it all sorted out. Any pointers on what's wrong?

Do you have the audio files saved somewhere? If so, make sure they're stored in the same folder as the anki deck, under the name "WhateverDeck.media" where WhateverDeck is, of course, your deck's name.

If you don't have the audio files (they aren't included in any of the above links), you're supposed to get them by using the anki smart.fm import plugin on the website's lists. Alternatively, you can download it from...

Edit: here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3605237/Sorted%20Core%202000.rar

Link may dissapear soon.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-08

cangy Wrote:but now I think it's better that kanji are introduced at an even rate, rather than the minimum rate (with a sharper increase later), and looking at the graphs, the ko2001 order is actually better for that (closer to a straight diagonal line) then the frequency order

I think I understand what you're saying here although I think it swings both ways. Having the kanji increase minimally early on allows the beginner to find their "groove" so to speak and refine their learning method rather than stumbling into it when they have so much thrown at them. Then once they are on cruise control halfway through the pace can pick up a bit thereby further pushing their learning ability to a new level since they are now more capable of digesting more in one bite. I think the more sustained rate would be good for a second or third deck perhaps. Again, that's just speculation as I'm by no means a specialist on learning methods.

I think I speak for many of us too when I say how much I appreciate your work on these scripts. If I get some time I'd like to add the information to the wiki as I think it's invaluable to beginners.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - intermu - 2010-01-08

Reviewed Wrote:
intermu Wrote:I couldn't get the audio in the deck, although I got it all sorted out. Any pointers on what's wrong?
Do you have the audio files saved somewhere? If so, make sure they're stored in the same folder as the anki deck, under the name "WhateverDeck.media" where WhateverDeck is, of course, your deck's name.

If you don't have the audio files (they aren't included in any of the above links), you're supposed to get them by using the anki smart.fm import plugin on the website's lists. Alternatively, you can download it from...

Edit: here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3605237/Sorted%20Core%202000.rar

Link may dissapear soon.

Thanks, downloading now. Right now though, my deck looks like this: http://i45.tinypic.com/jkycdz.jpg

so there's like no audio cards for the deck. Any tips?

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-08

intermu Wrote:Thanks, downloading now. Right now though, my deck looks like this: http://i45.tinypic.com/jkycdz.jpg

so there's like no audio cards for the deck. Any tips?

Oh it looks like you're using the KO2001 deck instead of the Core2000 deck. If you want to stick with that one you'll need to get the audio from here http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3283 instead. The deck export I posted earlier in this thread is for the Core2000 sentences which is the one you would use the smart.fm import plugin with to get the audio.

Edit: I just realized you have the images showing up in your deck which means you must have downloaded the full media deck at some point. Does your media directory already have the sound files in it? If so do you have a field in your deck for audio (I can't tell from the screenshot)? I'm not sure why your deck would have functioning images but not audio unless there's another KO2001 deck floating around somewhere without the audio.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Nukemarine - 2010-01-08

Let's see:

2005 - Reviewing the Kanji SRS
2006 - Reviewing the Kanji Forum
2007 - Anki
2008 - Subs2SRS (iKnow a close second)
2009 - Cangy's Sentence Sorter (CSS?)

Just my opinion on major innovations of the last few years in regards to learning Japanese.

Though I regret not having access to such a list when I started, I can't help but be excited on how others will benefit from this list. Reason I think Core2k and 6k lists are better is that they're free, so no copyright issues and pretty much do the same job.

Yeah, a sorted Core2k list followed by a sorted Core6k seems to be a winner in the "Learn Vocabulary Systematically" category. So let's recap a beginner's path:

1. Kana via RTKana
2. Kanji via RTK Lite 2001 KO version
3. Tae Kim Basic
4. Core 2k sorted via 2001KO (~400 to ~500 sentences)
5. Tae Kim Essential
6. Core 2k sorted via 2001KO (finish)

Note: Add new Kanji as you come across them to your RTK deck.

That should represent about 400 hours of effort (maybe less) but put one in a position to take any path you like.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Reviewed - 2010-01-08

Don't regret starting so early. If you started now, in five years you'd regret not having started then as people will have come up with learning tool wonders such as KanjiTurbo3000 and voc2brain.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - intermu - 2010-01-08

chameleoncoder Wrote:
intermu Wrote:Thanks, downloading now. Right now though, my deck looks like this: http://i45.tinypic.com/jkycdz.jpg

so there's like no audio cards for the deck. Any tips?
Oh it looks like you're using the KO2001 deck instead of the Core2000 deck. If you want to stick with that one you'll need to get the audio from here http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3283 instead. The deck export I posted earlier in this thread is for the Core2000 sentences which is the one you would use the smart.fm import plugin with to get the audio.

Edit: I just realized you have the images showing up in your deck which means you must have downloaded the full media deck at some point. Does your media directory already have the sound files in it? If so do you have a field in your deck for audio (I can't tell from the screenshot)? I'm not sure why your deck would have functioning images but not audio unless there's another KO2001 deck floating around somewhere without the audio.

Yeah, I have the media deck with audio files and images, but audio doesn't play during answer, and I don't have cards that go audio -> text. I'm guessing I need to play around with the card templates so that the audio plays during answer card?

I'm a little lost though on making new cards that go audio -> text. I can't try right now since I'm not at home, but I tried making a reverse card but was pretty much lost on getting it right. :/

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - chameleoncoder - 2010-01-08

intermu Wrote:Yeah, I have the media deck with audio files and images, but audio doesn't play during answer, and I don't have cards that go audio -> text. I'm guessing I need to play around with the card templates so that the audio plays during answer card?

Ahh, yeah that's probably it then if you do have an audio field already in your database. You just need to go into the card template and add %(FieldName)s to the answer card and the audio will play when the card flips.

intermu Wrote:I'm a little lost though on making new cards that go audio -> text. I can't try right now since I'm not at home, but I tried making a reverse card but was pretty much lost on getting it right. :/

You should just have to create the template and then go into your database and select your facts and choose generate cards. I would recommend making a copy of your deck and media folder before doing this just to be sure and even then maybe just try doing the generate cards with a single item selected to be sure it works out.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - macd4tw - 2010-01-08

It looks like your problem is just that you don't have any listening cards generated.

open up the deck

go to settings>deck properties

click edit

Go to card Templates

I have two card templates listen, listening and recognition. if you have listening, click on it and make sure %(audio)s is somewhere in the question.

If there is no listening card template, click add and make one, with %(Audio)s in the Question and whatever you want in the answer section (look at the other card templates to make sure you are doing it right.

Also check the Recognition card for %(audio)s in the answer, if you want it there.

then close those two windows and go to the deck Browser. Select all of the facts in the deck and go to actions>Generate cards and select Listening.

That should generate listening cards for you

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - intermu - 2010-01-10

Ah, thanks a lot! I didn't know about the generate cards option. That certainly explains why the new parts didn't show up. Many, many thanks!

I can't really sort it in order though, so for a deck the cards would go:

audio card
non-audio
non-audio
audio
non-audio
audio
audio
non-audio

and so on. In the interim, I'd given up on ordering it and made 2 separate decks; 1 for audio cards (for dictation) and 1 for non-audio (reading and understanding the sentences given).

If anyone's got a work-around to this, can you share what I should do to sort it in a deck in a regular way? If not, I'll just stick to these 2 decks. Again, many thanks! Smile

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - vileru - 2010-01-11

I'm having difficulties having the audio play on the answer side of my cards. Might someone be able to help me?

As Reviewed suggested in an earlier post, I saved the audio files as "Whateverdeck.media" in the same folder as my anki deck (in my case, SortedCore2000.media). I then opened the sorted Core2k deck in anki and edited the card template to say <br> %(Audio)s on the answer side. When I tried to review the deck after doing this, however, the answer side said "Invalid fieldname" or something to that effect. I've included some images below to show how I've arranged my folders and anki:

Folder containing anki decks/material
Inside the SortedCore2000.media folder
Card template for SortedCore2000

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me step-by-step instructions on what I have to do in order to make the audio work.

KO 2001 Kanji/Word progression - Nii87 - 2010-01-12

Your field is incorrect. The error is reasonably accurate. Show a screenshot of your "General and fields" tab on the window that you posted in your third image.