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Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
I decided to make this topic a few days early (I don't go full immersion until Thursday).
It's been a long journey. I came back from Japan 6 months ago. The whole time I was living in Japan, I knew maybe 50 kanji, and could barely speak japanese. I was overweight and chain smoking.
In the next few months I will be heading to Japan. As I told myself a few months back, I am going full immersion on Thursday as that's when I finish the sentence mining of AAP (All About Particles). I have already been full immersion aside from the internet. This is the last piece of the puzzle for me.
I am now at 2,600 kanji. I will be done with RTK3 by the end of this month, and I will be at about 2,000 sentences (800 now) by the time I get to Japan. I quit smoking months ago and am in great shape. I can imagine certain aspects of full immersion will be hard, but it is something i am willing to do to become fluent.
Well actually the only hard part I can think of for me will be lack of a girlfriend until I get to a good enough conversational level. I have had Japanese gf's last time in Japan, but we spoke in English. This time will be a whole different ballgame. I imagine I will be lonely for a while, but it will only fuel more motivation to learn more and more.
Same with friends. This time no foreign friends, only Japanese. Again, a hard task as I will be looking for those Japanese that don't have a desire to speak English. I imagine it will take a while to make some non English speaking Japanese friends.
So starting Thursday until fluency (whenever that comes), it will truly be 100% Japanese all the Time. (other than work). This forum has been awesome motivation and I will not forget to come back when I reach fluency and report back.
Do you know anyone who has actually followed Khatz's AJATT method to complete Khatz lunacy leveel of almost pure 100% immersion? What was it like for them?
Leaving the forums - Jarvik7 - 2009-11-02
The hard part of the girlfriend situation will be finding a girl who doesn't want to speak in English. If you do find one like that, then getting by with even minimal Japanese isn't a big deal. When I met my first Japanese girlfriend we spoke English for awhile (~2 months) and then she gave up on English and we just spoke using only Japanese, despite my level being pretty low at the time.
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
I had an idea about that. I briefly dated a Korean girl first time in Japan who only spoke Korean and Japanese (her Japanese level was good enough to work in a restaurant).
So maybe just look for a Korean or Chinese girl learning Japanese that doesn't know English.
Leaving the forums - aphasiac - 2009-11-02
What exactly will you be doing in Japan (apart from looking for a girlfriend
)?The full immersion idea is brave, but personally I feel isolating yourself socially to avoid English goes against the principle of AJATT. It's meant to be fun remember! Personally I know I couldn't give up English language music, forums or my friends; I suspect this is the reason why there aren't many people properly following Khatz's example.
Anyway good luck with it and good luck with the move!
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
i won't be isolating myself socially. i will be making a constant effort to stay social, but more on a superficial level (as i won't have the ability to carry on deep conversations for some time).
i will search for sport clubs the minute i get there. i will join a sports club for a team sport where cooperation is needed and I am the only non japanese in the club.
i will attend lots of live music venues (not clubs), but events where local bands are playing and attempt to get into that scene.
i will search and find eating establishments run locally with friendly staff that will talk to me in Japanese.
I will hang out at local bars only drinking non alcoholic drinks as more opportunity to socialize.
Any small local event I will try and attend if I find interesting.
I find all of this extremely enjoyable.
Leaving the forums - wccrawford - 2009-11-02
Good luck!
Leaving the forums - Tzadeck - 2009-11-02
Sounds like a good life experience.
I only have one piece of advice. Specifically making friends and dating women who aren't interested in English isn't necessarily a good idea for your Japanese. It might very well improve your Japanese faster if you have friends who are Japanese that speak both English and Japanese at first, since it might be a while before you find good friends who don't speak English. Also, people who do speak English can be very insightful in multiple other ways that might help you. Before it didn't sound like you were so motivated, so maybe you didn't learn much Japanese from people like your girlfriends... but now that you're motivated even a girlfriend who speaks good English could be a big help (and hopefully super awesome and a super hottie).
So, if you're only doing it for your Japanese, I'd consider rethinking the Japanese-only thing. If you're doing it because it's interesting/fun/you want to, then it's probably a good idea.
Remember that immersion doesn't mean never speaking your native language. Also, the first time I lived in Japan, two fellow foreigners I met there were truly great people, and even though I don't get to see them very often these days I consider them two of my best friends. Don't pass up a really good friendship for your immersion goals, if the opportunity arises.
Leaving the forums - Grinkers - 2009-11-02
jacf29 Wrote:Do you know anyone who has actually followed Khatz's AJATT method to complete Khatz lunacy leveel of almost pure 100% immersion? What was it like for them?I'm kind of doing that now. I didn't find out about this site, SRS, or AJATT before coming to Japan, however I kept my (English speaking) foreigner grouping to a minimum from the start. I'm at a university prep school, and I'm one of maybe 3 people from an English speaking country. Out of 150ish people, there's literally less than 10 who speak English at a fluent level. I never became close with the English speakers because I didn't come to Japan to talk to them.
My Japanese friends I've made since coming to Japan also don't really speak English. A couple do want to practice with me, but we never use English when we all group together. Usually if we're getting together, I'll meet the person who wants to speak English an hour before, then after everybody else comes it's only Japanese.
Does it work? I think it helps a lot, but it has diminishing returns like anything else. I don't feel that an hour a day, averaged, of English is really hurting my Japanese very much at all. There's a lot of great stuff out there that's in English, but not Japanese! If I had completely cut off my English, I wouldn't have found out about SRSing! I actually found this site by randomly googling something ridiculous like "the super secret kanji method" and found some site bashing RTK with links to here.
Two "tips" from somebody who isn't done yet (I've only been here 6 months).
1. Expect other westerners to think you're a rude self centered leprechaun. (I probably am!
)2. Generally speaking, if your Japanese is better than the other person's English, you'll end up speaking Japanese (and visa versa). I found it better to meet people who speak less English than my Japanese, than it was to fight against using the easier language.
Leaving the forums - mafried - 2009-11-02
Good luck!
Leaving the forums - hanzaisha - 2009-11-02
Grinkers Wrote:2. Generally speaking, if your Japanese is better than the other person's English, you'll end up speaking Japanese (and visa versa). I found it better to meet people who speak less English than my Japanese, than it was to fight against using the easier language.That makes sense. You could act like you don't understand when that person tries to talk english, so they'll give up and use japanese instead (underhanded and lousy, I know...)
jacf29: If you jump, I jump. I'll leave too.
*gone*
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
I still believe in not sticking with things I don't enjoy. But I won't quit trying the immersion with Japanese only friends and Japanese only speaking girlfriend just because its hard. I don't expect to get much out of a Japanese only speaking girlfriend. It's just part of sticking with my 100% immersion if i can help it philosophy.
My job will already have me speaking English 6 hours a day, as well as the times I communicate with my family.
I'm not worried as being viewed as a rude and self centered leprechaun. I won't be that person who ignores other foreigners who try and speak English with them in public. If someone asks me for directions or trys to spark up a convo on the train, of course I will talk with theem in English. I just won't be maintaining conversation if we exchange emails etc.
Hanzaisa, are you in Japan? I wouldn't go full 100% immersion unless you were leaving soon for Japan or are currently there. It can be superhard on your sanity doing this in a primarily English speaking country.
Leaving the forums - Akalto - 2009-11-02
Congrats on the quitting smoking and getting in shape. Best of luck to you sir!
Leaving the forums - strugglebunny - 2009-11-02
I wouldn't completely dismiss foreign or Japanese English speakers. You're going to go insane trying to try to convey your feelings, and if you can't speak the language very well, it's tough to make close friends. Also, get ready to be "that guy" in the group...the token foreigner who gets taken along to places or spoken to, because you are a novelty--especially if you speak any Japanese.
Coming here, I had the same idea as you, but it became impossible to keep up (I go to an American university in Tokyo, got board quick of not being able to say anything, etc.) Now one of the coolest people I know here is actually a Russian--and not to sound like I'm using them as tools, because I enjoy being with them--but when I am with a (small) group of American friends, I find it easier to sort of spring board from them to meeting natives as well.
But anyways, one of my faults is I often put off studying (I really hate SRSing, I should probably just drop it.) Maybe if you can keep up the immersion, you will get over the conversational hurdle that I still have yet to.
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
I know what its like being the token foreigner. I lived there before. This time I won't be using English.
I will use that desire to convey my emotions to fuel my motivation to keep working as hard as I can.
It's like that movie Castaway. It wasn't easy for Tom Hanks to be without people on an island, but eventually his needs to convey his feelings materialized in his new friend the ball. haha
Leaving the forums - bodhisamaya - 2009-11-02
From what I have heard, if you can give up smoking, you can accomplish anything in life. I have a friend who gave up both smoking and heroin when he was younger. He said the heroin habit was easy to kick compared to smoking.
I had some Japanese girlfriends who spoke no English when I first arrived in Japan and had no Japanese ability. It is actually kind of fun playing the charades game. The only problem is learning to speak girlie Nihongo by mimicking what she says in your mind. It gets tough to break those habits later on.
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
I am one of those guys who doesn't spend all my time with my girlfriends. I plan on finding some dudes to hang out with to counterbalance the nonstop girly talk I will here from my gf.
Yeah giving up the smoking was super hard. I have the feeling within myself too. Nothing is hard compared to giving up smoking.
Leaving the forums - caedmon - 2009-11-02
If I might make a (perhaps heretical) suggestion, why don't you forego the girlfriend for while (3 months, 6 months, a year)? You will see a lot more of the country and make many more real friends. Girlfriends (boyfriends too, I imagine) are a lot of work and distract from the really interesting parts of Japan.
Leaving the forums - markal - 2009-11-02
jacf29 Wrote:i will search and find eating establishments run locally with friendly staff that will talk to me in Japanese.You had better start preparing yourself mentally for the fact that these locations will be a huge challenge to your non-smoking. As you will recall from your previous visit to Japan, its an extremely smoker-friendly country and non-smoking restaurants are few and far-between and non-existent outside major metropolitan areas and non-smoking bars are non-existent anywhere. A couple of chairs off on the side for the "non-smoking section" don't cut it for someone who has recently quit (recent = within two years or so when relapse is most likely).
I will hang out at local bars only drinking non alcoholic drinks as more opportunity to socialize.
You will have many opportunities to let your guard down: sitting around the table with a couple of friends, feeling pretty fine even if you do manage to stay with the non-alcoholic drinks, and hey, what harm is just one little ciggie going to do? Next thing you know you are puffing away on a daily basis.
Just warning you to be ready for it.
Leaving the forums - bodhisamaya - 2009-11-02
@caedmon
Yea... right. Difficulty of kicking addictions:
heroin < cigarettes
cigarettes < air
air < Japanese girlfriends
Leaving the forums - philiphoward123 - 2009-11-02
Maybe this is useless information (as usual from me
)...I was trying to imagine being in your situation. I just thought it's easier to do a positive rather than not do a negative (if you see what I mean), so how about aiming to do the things you enjoy (things using Japanese, presumably) which will help you meet good friends who speak Japanese?Also, since you have taken steps already with your life (smoking etc) it looks like you might have some kind of plan going on...?
Knowing what you are aiming to do in life might help with finding these good people. Somehow to me it makes sense that if you have a plan to do something in the world and that plan needs to be in Japanese then you will meet the right people. It always helps me to get the focus clear.
What I'm trying to say is it would be good to aim to do the Japanese things that you love. There probably won't be any English speaking going on, and you can have fun and you don't have to worry about avoiding English speakers
It's a positive rather than thinking of the negative you don't want to do.But how did you stop the smoking? If you said "I must quit this!" then what I just said is wrong
Or did you aim for something positive instead like "I love to be healthy?"There's sometimes a lot of psychological talk going on that doesn't really matter if you have your own way of succeeding. I just thought of saying what I imagined in case it helps!
頑張って下さい！
Leaving the forums - Nii87 - 2009-11-02
jacf29 Wrote:I was overweight and chain smoking.Why is everyone talking about Japanese and dropping smoking? What about your weight? Will you be hitting the gym to achieve Japanese male levels of slenderness? Not in jest of course, I need to get rid of my own flab too.
jacf29 Wrote:"something about live music"Don't forget the swing dancing! I have a sneaking suspicion that most Japanese people learning swing dancing/lindy hop really only want to meet American guys but I hope that won't be the case. Maybe you can find out for me and let me know =)
Leaving the forums - jacf29 - 2009-11-02
Its actually pretty funny. I won't be eating the same stuff as everyone else in Japan. I will still keep my low carb high protein eating way but in Japan. At least until I reach my target weight, which should happen in march. (hell with the rate i am going i might get there before i leave for japan). Then i will start to slowly reimplement carbs in my diet, while moving towards toning up (situps,pushups, etc) as well.
i wont be joining any gyms. my workouts have remained running 3 miles 3 times a week and eating healthy. And all the SRSing I do probably burns calories. If I can find a swing dance club lacking foreigners I will join.
Resisting the urge to smoke is not much of a problem for me. When I first quit, I was working in a bar/restaurant that was smoke filled all the time. I had to endure that during my first 3 weeks or so of quitting non stop (I worked 40 hours a week). I now work at a pizza delivery place where almost everyone smokes. I see them stepping outside chatting having cigs all the time while i am inside all alone. Doesn't bother me much.
Caedmon: I've been foregoing the girlfriend for the last 6 months. By time I get to Japan, it will have been almost 9 months since I have been with someone. I'm only a man, and I want to get a gf again.
Leaving the forums - Nii87 - 2009-11-02
jacf29 Wrote:If I can find a swing dance club lacking foreigners I will join.I need to know this. Even if you've begun your immersion, please send me a message regarding the type of communities for lindy hop in Japan. You're the only real contact I know that will actually go and find out. I do know that the people that run the community are American... I think.
Leaving the forums - bodhisamaya - 2009-11-02
jacf29 Wrote:Its actually pretty funny. I won't be eating the same stuff as everyone else in Japan. I will still keep my low carb high protein eating way but in Japan. At least until I reach my target weight, which should happen in march. (hell with the rate i am going i might get there before i leave for japan). Then i will start to slowly reimplement carbs in my diet, while moving towards toning up (situps,pushups, etc) as well.Ughhhh! Mr. Atkins died of a heart attack from being obese! If there was any justice in the world the guy would have been shot earlier than that by a relative of someone who died believing it was healthy to eat bacon wrapped pork chops every meal.
Don't be fooled by short term results from unhealthy diets. If you cut anything major out of your diet it will shock your system in to losing weight. People have lost weight eating only Snickers bars. Everyone in my family is at least 100lbs overweight and I was well on my way as well until I became a vegetarian 15 years ago. I eat tons of carbs. People all over Asia eat rice like crazy and stay thin. If you take in too much protein, it causes other adverse conditions like calcium deficiencies as well.
Leaving the forums - Jarvik7 - 2009-11-02
Bacon-wrapped porkchops nomnom. Sounds like it would go well with rice.