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+--- Thread: Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) (/thread-4283.html)
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - aquafina - 2009-10-28
Hi Everyone,
I'm sure this has been asked before and I have honest to goodness searched this forum and googled n stuff but I just can't find the info I'm looking for. So please don't be mad at me for asking was has likeley been asked a ton of times...
I'm currently working through the Smart.fm core 2000 on anki and after beeing hit with a bit of a rodeblock at the start of unit 3 where things start getting tough, I was wondering if it would just be better to do the KO words instead since they are ordered much better for learning kanji readings. I don't have the KO book and my funds are limited so I was gonna just import the words and sentences from the KO list on smart.fm that RTK forum members colaborated to make and put them into anki. At least untill the cash faery grants me some dough to buy this book that you are all raving about. I would then move on to Core 2000 when I was done with that.
The reason Im looking for advice is because im in Japan right now and my Japanese is horrible. So I wanted to know which list would improve my japanese ability quicker. My first thought was the Core list since its supposed to include the most common words in Japanese. But maybe the KO list would be better since the order of the kanji would make vocab much easier to rememeber.
Aghhhhhhhhhh! Decisions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks for any adivce
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - bombpersons - 2009-10-28
KO's got a lot of business related words.. I think Core 2000's word's are probably more common. Also more interesting.
If you want to learn quicker just do more sentences. If you push yourself you can easily do 200+ new sentences in a day.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - magamo - 2009-10-28
If you're living in Japan, maybe you can show lists of sentences to your friends and ask them which list is more accurately representing the kind of Japanese they use when they talk to you? I don't know what the two textbooks are like, but if there is a difference in vocab and such, it seems to me that the most logical and efficient way is to learn what you hear everyday first.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - wccrawford - 2009-10-28
Do both. (Oh noes, a third option!)
KO's words are a -lot- easier to learn. They are (obviously) grouped by Kanji, so you aren't learning everything all at once for each of them. You get to learn in little pieces instead.
But as noted, Core2000's words are more common, simply because that is how the list was compiled.
I started on Core and once I got past the first couple sections, it got crazy hard. I struggled through the third and was going to give up on the fourth. I switched to KO and did that for a while, then back to Core and Core was a -lot- easier then.
So do both.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - kioku3 - 2009-10-28
aquafina Wrote:I'm currently working through the Smart.fm core 2000 on anki and after beeing hit with a bit of a rodeblock at the start of unit 3 where things start getting tough,Since the sentences in Core 2000 don't vary much in length or difficulty, there's no real reason why you need to do them in sequence. Like you, I found unit 3 difficult, so I just started doing unit 10 instead, working downwards. Much much easier. If you like the iknow format, you might consider that.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - brianobush - 2009-10-28
I second the do both option. I have started core2k some time back - on smart.fm they were listed as みんなの日本語 lists, but were sentences basically derived from core2k to match the grammar. I have recently started KO2001. I think KO is pretty hard compared to the core2k lists, but mainly because some KO sentences have 2-3 new vocabulary items. I interchange them and basically am adding sentences from both to spice up reviews.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-28
The KO lists are a much more efficient way of learning than the random way the Core lists arrange the vocabulary. I haven't really done iknow applications much over the last few months though except when I create a public list myself just to make sure I didn't make any mistakes. I go straight to the sentence page of lists that have audio and listen while reading the Japanese translation. It feels like a much more natural way to study and I can repeat maybe 200 sentences in an hour compared to the 30 or so I usually accomplish in iknow.
Creating lists while typing sentences in myself helps with my typing skills. Dictation always felt awkward to me especially since there were so many transliteration errors.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - mezbup - 2009-10-28
I would say it depends on the level of vocab you have before you start either KO or Core which determines how easy or difficult its going to be. There's some pretty hard #### in KO too at times but one thing I liked about it is the use of Kanji priming. Kanji that are going to be used in upcoming sentences start to get shown a bit before it's time to learn it so when you come to it you are kinda familiar with it already. That's helped me a little to internalize some kanji by having little aha moments when you go oh right its the X from word X right of course!
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - Nukemarine - 2009-10-28
One could always use the KO2k1 Lists on iKnow and import those into Anki. Sort of the best of both worlds.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - strugglebunny - 2009-10-29
I was thinking about importing the KO2k1 iknow lists into Anki, but the iknow importer is sometimes wonky on highlighting the proper keywords, and I don't feel like examining 1000s of cards to make sure all the readings/highlighted words are correct. Plus, I believe some vocab doesn't have example sentences--so I just stick with the lazy way and do it in iknow--seems to be working okay for me.
As for an opinion, yeah, just do both. I plan on doing so myself. I, like you, stopped at Lesson 3, but after I get through some KO2k1, I'll probably go back (maybe sarting at 10 like the other poster suggested.)
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - Aijin - 2009-10-29
Why the dislike for Genki? I've seen it taught in a few classes, and it seemed effective and useful in the classroom setting. Maybe there are better options for self-study, but I don't see how you can go wrong with the textbook.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - CerpinTaxt - 2009-10-29
Yeah, Genki wasn't bad at all. I used it for self study, going through both books using the sentence method. Really improved my reading skills and comprehension. After Genki, I was able to read yotsubato! and some other manga really easily. Vocab was the only thing that really got in the way. This was before I started Heisig also.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - strugglebunny - 2009-10-29
Genki sucks because it teaches you how to get married before it teaches you how to order a taxi, ask where a razor blade is at the drug store, or effectively communicate you are sick and what you need to have done. Everything is "Kekkon shitai!" and "watashi no machi daisuki!" The voice acting is painful to listen to (I don't know anyone in Tokyo that talks like these people--its completely unnatural, at least for this area, maybe others are different?)
The Kanji are taught with no rhyme or reason--and even if you complete both books, you're still illiterate, because they don't teach enough. The vocab lists have nothing to do with the story, often don't have example sentences, are never seen again throughout the book, and are generally useless to a beginner (why do I know the word for "Elephant" before the word for "Theif", or "Help me"?)
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - mezbup - 2009-10-29
strugglebunny Wrote:Genki sucks because it teaches you how to get married before it teaches you how to order a taxi, ask where a razor blade is at the drug store, or effectively communicate you are sick and what you need to have done. Everything is "Kekkon ######!" and "watashi no machi daisuki!" The voice acting is painful to listen to (I don't know anyone in Tokyo that talks like these people--its completely unnatural, at least for this area, maybe others are different?)Maybe you want to marry an Elephant? It's true that if you do KO you'd be way beyond Genki.
The Kanji are taught with no rhyme or reason--and even if you complete both books, you're still illiterate, because they don't teach enough. The vocab lists have nothing to do with the story, often don't have example sentences, are never seen again throughout the book, and are generally useless to a beginner (why do I know the word for "Elephant" before the word for "Theif", or "Help me"?)
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - Nukemarine - 2009-10-29
Aijin Wrote:Why the dislike for Genki? I've seen it taught in a few classes, and it seemed effective and useful in the classroom setting. Maybe there are better options for self-study, but I don't see how you can go wrong with the textbook.Although Strugglebunny showed his dislike after your post, I'm not finding where anyone mentioned much less put down Genki on the thread.
Did someone delete a post? Happened before, which got me in the habit of quoting certain posters that made it a habit.
About Genki, I had no personal problem with it. While I wouldn't recommend it for self study over free material like Tae Kim's stuff, it does the job in books one and two of getting a person to equivalent of JLPT 3 level. Now, if there was a spread sheet full of cloze deletion sentences (for grammar) and example sentences (for vocabulary) to use for Genki that'd be a different story.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - bombpersons - 2009-10-29
strugglebunny Wrote:Genki sucks because it teaches you how to get married before it teaches you how to order a taxi, ask where a razor blade is at the drug store, or effectively communicate you are sick and what you need to have done. Everything is "Kekkon shitai!" and "watashi no machi daisuki!" The voice acting is painful to listen to (I don't know anyone in Tokyo that talks like these people--its completely unnatural, at least for this area, maybe others are different?)Agree, genki sucks. Before I found this site, I was recommended it. Glad I only downloaded it and didn't buy it.
The Kanji are taught with no rhyme or reason--and even if you complete both books, you're still illiterate, because they don't teach enough. The vocab lists have nothing to do with the story, often don't have example sentences, are never seen again throughout the book, and are generally useless to a beginner (why do I know the word for "Elephant" before the word for "Theif", or "Help me"?)
Yeah, I don't know why we are suddenly talking about Genki.. Did someone mention it?
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - twinzen - 2009-10-29
Nukemarine Wrote:One could always use the KO2k1 Lists on iKnow and import those into Anki. Sort of the best of both worlds.How do you go about "learning" the words before you use them with anki?
smart.fm has the advantage of "teaching" you stuff before you SRS them, but the SRS system there is not good at all.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - jacf29 - 2009-10-29
bombpersons Wrote:If you want to learn quicker just do more sentences. If you push yourself you can easily do 200+ new sentences in a day.were you joking with the 200+ new sentences a day? There is no way that is possible. If it is please explain how as I am curious.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-29
jacf29 Wrote:You could easily practice 200 sentences with audio on smart.fm in two hours. Go to the sentence page of any list. After a month there would probably not be many new sentences left so you would have to start over.bombpersons Wrote:If you want to learn quicker just do more sentences. If you push yourself you can easily do 200+ new sentences in a day.were you joking with the 200+ new sentences a day? There is no way that is possible. If it is please explain how as I am curious.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - thurd - 2009-11-08
I had the same problem as you and after gathering a lot of information it all came down to personal preference, so my advice is try one and if it doesn't work shift to the other.
I tried core, didn't like it and went KO. But its not perfect either, for example:
Sentence like this:
日本の道は狭いから、大型の車より小型の車の方が運転しやすい。
is actually introducing a new reading for kanji 小, but authors in all their infinite wisdom decided that focusing your attention on just this new reading is not enough. So they added 6 new kanji, 8 new words and I think one grammar point, on top of that 小.
How retarded is that? Very.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - brianobush - 2009-11-08
thurd Wrote:I tried core, didn't like it and went KO. But its not perfect either, for example:Not that retarded, but definitely agressive. I started KO recently (And have had other formal Japanese studies), and didn't seem that hard. I keep wondering why KO is recommend right after RTK and tae kim - other materials seem more appropriate to fill the gap (みんなの日本語 comes to mind) if one has had no other formal exposure.
Sentence like this:
日本の道は狭いから、大型の車より小型の車の方が運転しやすい。
is actually introducing a new reading for kanji 小, but authors in all their infinite wisdom decided that focusing your attention on just this new reading is not enough. So they added 6 new kanji, 8 new words and I think one grammar point, on top of that 小.
How retarded is that? Very.
Funny thing is I just failed this same exact card - got everything except the reading for 型.
Core 2000 Vs KO 2001 (please don't be angry...) - thurd - 2009-11-09
brianobush Wrote:Not that retarded, but definitely agressive. I started KO recently (And have had other formal Japanese studies), and didn't seem that hard. I keep wondering why KO is recommend right after RTK and tae kim - other materials seem more appropriate to fill the gap (みんなの日本語 comes to mind) if one has had no other formal exposure.Hmm, might give みんなの日本語 a try but I figured once I'm past such hurdles it should only get easier
Funny thing is I just failed this same exact card - got everything except the reading for 型.
Btw. I failed that card on several occasions and on different words, but I'll get there... eventually.