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+--- Thread: Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? (/thread-4241.html)
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - jacf29 - 2009-10-23
This has been bugging me for a while. The whole time I lived in Tokyo I could never grasp when to say thanks and when not to (While shopping, eating out, etc).
It seemed to me like many people just went to the cash register, got checked out, didnt say a word and left. In restaurants, I heard more people saying thank you. In cheap restaurants like Yoshinoya, not as much.
So when do you say thanks and when do you not when out and about?
Also, on a related note, when do you say hello when shopping, or are you even supposed to say hello? When I went shopping and entered a store I would say hello all the time, but I never saw Japanese people do it.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Nii87 - 2009-10-23
Yeah I sort of stopped thanking the staff after noticing the locals didn't do it either.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - RisuMiso - 2009-10-23
Yeah it's common for people not to say thank-you very often here. I still do, just because the Japanese don't as much doesn't mean you shouldn't. To me if someone does something for me it deserves thanks regardless of the language.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Jarvik7 - 2009-10-23
I sometimes thank them and sometimes not. It does make the 店員 noticeably happier to be thanked. One thing to watch out for is that some situations are better with an apology (すみません) instead of thanks. ex: Someone holds the elevator for you or moves over to give you a seat on the train.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - wccrawford - 2009-10-23
I don't think it's fair to assume that it's inappropriate to thank someone simply because the locals didn't. I thank people in the US a lot more than anyone I know, even my family. If they've done a good job and made your experience pleasant, thank them. If they're just drones and obviously don't care, do whatever you want. (I still thank them, unless they are rude.)
Jarvik has a good point about the proper phrase, though.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - mullr - 2009-10-23
My mother taught me to always say thank you, so that's what I do. People don't look at me strangely when I do.
I almost always say "hello" in a store setting, in the best accent I can summon. This assures the clerk that I can speak Japanese and makes people much more comfortable as a whole.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - cangy - 2009-10-23
jacf29 Wrote:In restaurants, I heard more people saying thank you. In cheap restaurants like Yoshinoya, not as much.I think it's polite to say ごちそうさま at restaurants, but many don't seem to do it...
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Nii87 - 2009-10-23
^I say ごちそうさま, if only to make sure the workers know that I've finished so I can pay and stuff
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - magamo - 2009-10-23
There are regional differences when it comes to greetings and such. In some regions people say the Japanese version of hi, thanks, and so on more often than in other regions. So if you're "living" in Japan, you might want to follow the clichéd principle "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
That said, I personally think it's a good thing to say thanks if you want to even in a situation where it's not necessary to thank in Japan. Most Japanese don't think it's rude or arrogant to impose your country's way to be nice onto the Japanese culture as long as you don't expect others to behave the same way.
But if you want to do that in Japanese, not in English, it can be tricky. The English "thanks" covers many Japanese emotions such as 感謝 and 恐縮. Actually "Thanks" can be translated as various Japanese phrases depending on context. Jarvik said it'd be better to "apologize" in some situations by saying すみません, but the phrase in that context is not an apology in the English sense, though it can be translated as "sorry," "excuse me," and the like in another context.
The すみません Jarvik was referring to corresponds to the "thanks" you say when you benefit, gain, etc. while the other person suffers or loses in some sense. For example, if you accidentally drop something on the floor and a stranger picks it up for you, then you say すみません because you got it back doing nothing (i.e., benefit) and the stranger bothered to pick it up (i.e., suffer). Usually you say ありがとうございます immediately after すみません to sound more polite. You could say the English "thanks" does this in one word. The same goes for Jarvik's elevator and train examples. In the elevator example, a stranger bothered to push the open button, and someone scooted over for you in the train example. You may drop ありがとうございます if you don't think it's necessary. You can change すみません to どうもすみません to express "Thank you so much."
A store clerk would never say お買い上げいただき、すみません。They always use お買い上げいただき、ありがとうございます because it's supposed to be a win-win situation.
What counts as "benefit" and "suffer" is highly cultural, so I guess it's almost impossible to explain it in a short post. But in general, when a stranger did something for you (e.g., helping you carry heavy stuff), you use the すみません+ありがとうございます combo. But if it's a friend, you don't say すみません because friends are supposed to help each other. So, for example, you only say ありがとう if the guy in the elevator/on the train is your friend. ごめん is a lighter version of すみません, and you can use it when your friend bothered to do something. But this is optional in most cases. You should say it if you really mean "I'm sorry" though.
Whether you should say いただきます and ごちそうさまでした is a tough question. But there is no reason not to. Besides, you can't go wrong with these phrases because there is no variation except for ごちそうさま, which is slightly informal.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - magamo - 2009-10-23
IceCream Wrote:if you went to a restaurant on your own, would you still say いただきます?It depends. Actually I'm curious what masaman and Aijin think of this. One of my friends always says いただきます and ごちそうさま no matter what. It doesn't seem to be common in Tokyo, but you'll hear a person say いただきます alone in a restaurant more often in Osaka. The atmospheric of the restaurant is also a factor. If you sit at a counter in a small restaurant run by a family, more people would say it. Also, older people tend to say greetings and the like more frequently. But if you're eating alone, I don't think the majority would say いただきます or ごちそうさま.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - thermal - 2009-10-28
I think いただきます and ごちそうさま are niceties. Some people do say them all the time, particularly older people, however most people only say them with others as a nice bit of communication. "Let's eat!!" "Thanks for the meal!"
As magamo said, there are many ways you can translate thanks. It is not appropriate to say ありがとう in all situations when you can thanks someone. You need to learn to learn all the variation if you want to be able to thank people smoothly.
With buying in convenience stores, the reason the customer doesn't thank the staff, is because the staff themselves are not important. They are merely a port if you will of the company and directed by it's will. So saying thanks to them, is essentially saying thanks to the company, which is weird because the company is making a profit off you.
Having said that, especially as a foreigner I'm sure many people will take it as a thanks to themselves for their service and not the company and will be happy if you thank them.
The only thing I would keep in mind, is you need to learn how to basically be Japanese. You need to be able to mimic one of them exactly. This doesn't mean you have to change your personality, but you need to know the rules before you can break them so to speak. So it's probably more useful for you Japanese in the long term if you focus on becoming Japanese now, then pull it back once you really get the culture.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - yudantaiteki - 2009-10-28
Nii87 Wrote:^I say ごちそうさま, if only to make sure the workers know that I've finished so I can pay and stuff"お会計"は？
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Nii87 - 2009-10-28
...huh?
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Aijin - 2009-10-28
When I moved to California I thought it was kinda' weird that I always heard people thank shop clerks, waiters at restaurants, etc. My friends would say "thank you" everytime someone refilled their water, for example, and it kinda' irked me. I understand that it's a simple kindness in America to do things like that, but in Japan most people have a different state of mind: the customer is the one who benefits the clerk and company by their purchases, so the clerk/company should be the one thanking YOU, not the other way around. It doesn't make sense to me to thank someone for doing their job. If someone does you a kindness that they're not obligated to, of course you thank them for going out of their way to be nice, but if it's what they're getting paid for then they don't need thanks. They're just providing a service.
Regarding いただきます, people might say it when eating alone as long as there are people within ear-shot, but if the person is truly isolated, then there's not really any point to it, y'know? If they're in a familiar place, or an intimate setting, like a restaurant they go to every single day, it's more likely to be said. Also, sometimes people keep up those formalities when alone and unheard, because it gives a sense of others being present, if they're lonely. Does that make sense? Probably not...I don't know of an example in English. Say a bachelor is living alone in his apartment, he's really lonely, and he's eating by himself. He might say it just to make it feel less lonesome.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - yudantaiteki - 2009-10-28
Nii87 Wrote:...huh?A common way to end your meal in a restaurant is to shout out お会計！...or at least it was in Tochigi.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-28
The person behind the counter is first and foremost a human being. Nothing changes when they clock in and put on a uniform. This aspect of Japanese culture is something I always found bizarre. Japanese youth borrow so many useless things from the West. I think it would be a positive change if it became "cool" to be pleasant to store clerks or anyone in a service industry. If one has to look at workers as some sort of company robot that benefits from customers spending money, the customer benefits from the service being there as well.
"Thank you for being so conveniently located".
"Thank you for carrying this product. I have been looking for it everywhere!"
"Thanks for checking me out so fast. I was really in a hurry."
...and a smile to show the appreciation was genuine.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Aijin - 2009-10-28
If the person is really helpful, kind, of course they deserve a thank you, and people in Japan thank clerks, etc, who truly go out of their way and above and beyond the call of duty to help. But for simple things like, someone handing you your order at McDonald's, nobody thinks that deserves a 'thank you'.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-28
Aijin Wrote:If the person is really helpful, kind, of course they deserve a thank you, and people in Japan thank clerks, etc, who truly go out of their way and above and beyond the call of duty to help. But for simple things like, someone handing you your order at McDonald's, nobody thinks that deserves a 'thank you'.Anyone who works at McDonald's deserves a thank you for not going completely insane and gunning down a store full of customers. At least a "Thank you for not spitting on my hamburger" might be appropriate (though she probably did anyways having talked to friends in high school who worked there).
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - yudantaiteki - 2009-10-28
In my experience working fast food, most people are too tired and apathetic to spit in burgers or anything like that.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Aijin - 2009-10-28
I understand that point of view, but to most Japanese people things like that aren't worth acknowledgment because the person doing the service isn't doing it out of the kindness of their heart. They're not being inconvenienced nor acting with the intent of giving happiness/benefiting others; they're in it for the money, and giving you the food is simply a requirement of their job description. So to a Japanese person it isn't worth a 'thank you'.
Does that make sense? I am not sure if I am explaining it well.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-28
Aijin Wrote:I understand that point of view, but to most Japanese people things like that aren't worth acknowledgment because the person doing the service isn't doing it out of the kindness of their heart. They're not being inconvenienced nor acting with the intent of giving happiness/benefiting others; they're in it for the money, and giving you the food is simply a requirement of their job description. So to a Japanese person it isn't worth a 'thank you'.I understand the view. Thanking someone for what is expected anyways could be seen as strange. They are in it for the money but giving happiness/benefiting others is a very strong motivator to many as well as far job satisfaction goes. I think especially to men who often define who they are by how well they perform at their job.
Does that make sense? I am not sure if I am explaining it well.
Speaking with kind words really doesn't need a reason. It will affect how that service worker interacts with future customers as well.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - ahibba - 2009-10-28
Does it cost you anything to say these words?
Say it and don't be stingy!
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - Aijin - 2009-10-28
Well, I don't know whether it's necessarily better for the worker to be thanked. One of my part time jobs here used to be as a waitress, and I never really cared personally when people said 'thank you'. Hearing it constantly day after day really made it meaningless for me through sheer repetition I suppose...
Often when I say 'thank you' at restaurants I only get a 'you're welcome' from the waiters/waitresses, as they want to be nice for the tip, but those people who are just kinda' service people to fill glasses etc (I don't remember what they're called in English) seem to often not say "you're welcome" and to ignore the "thank you" because they hear it so constantly. I imagine it'd get annoying hearing "thank you" every ten seconds.
I mean, for routine jobs like fast food, where it's simply one customer after the next, it seems like the 'thank you' would seem very meaningless quickly, and exist just out of habit almost, rather than a profound sign of gratitude.
Oh well. I mean, I do try to understand the American view, but it's hard for me to agree
just depends on how we were socialized in our cultures *shrug*
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - bodhisamaya - 2009-10-28
I really hate that it seems everyone gets tipped today in the US to the point it is expected as part of the fee for any service provided. Though ￥800 per hour for waitresses as I have seen advertised in Japan needs a little improvement. I don't think the motivation for "your welcome" is primarily the tip though. Thank you does become routine for the service provider because it is required by the company. Because it is not required by the customer, most of the time, it is sincere.
Saying thanks in Japan; when is it appropriate? - ocircle - 2009-10-28
You usually only say thanks when someone who is your superior does something for you, such as your teacher, boss, someone older than you, a co-worker who has been at the company longer than you...etc.
...or so I learned when I was in Korea, where they seem to think they invented Confucianism. (We even tried to argue that Confucius was originally Korean! Oh boy.)
For when waiters, students, people younger than you, newcomers to the company do something for you, I guess it's expected of them to behave in that manner, so no need to thank them...
It's not like in the US where you say "thank you," "I'm sorry," and "excuse me" to everyone regardless of relationship.