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Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-02-27
Hello Everyone.
I know I promised a while back to list all the grammar
in Kanken Master 2-kyuu Grammar in terms of their usage.
I had my conversation partner go through the entire book and
she rated the expressions by how common they are in real life.
High = "popular in conversation"
Medium = "middle"
less popular = "less popular but sometimes we use"
written = "only written I think"
news or business = "people speak rarely, but news caster say or business only"
In terms of usefulness(most useful being first) the categories go:
High -> Medium -> Less Popular-> Written -> Business/News
She stressed that you should learn the "High" and "Medium" grammar first.
You can study the rest if you have time (i.e. they are not really too useful
in her opinion, but it's possible that they're good for very specific, limited situations.
In many cases, you might be able to come up with expressions using simpler words
that have the same or almost the same meaning).
Some of these ratings might seem off, but sometimes the grammar
covered for that expression isn't the most frequent usage for it. She
even read through all the examples carefully and I'd say she's as
smart as any other Japanese person I know. So I have complete
faith in these rankings.
Without further ado, here they are:
1 として（は）、としても、としての medium
2 とともに less popular
3 においては、においても、における less popular
4 に応じて、に応じ、に応じた medium
5 にかわって、にかわり high
6 に比べて、に比べ high
7 にしたがって、にしたがい less popular
8 につれて、につれ less popular
9 に対して、に対して、に対しても、に対する high
10 について（は）、につき、についても、についての high
11 にとって（は）、にとっても、にとっての high
12 に伴って、に伴い、に伴う less popular
13 によって、により、による、によっては high
14 によると medium
15 を中心に（して）、を中心として less popular
16 を問わず less popular
17 をはじめ、をはじめとする less popular
18 をもとに、をもとにして medium
19 うえ（に） less popular
20 うちに、ないうちに medium
21 おかげで、おかげだ high
22 かわりに high
23 くらい、ぐらい、くらいだ、ぐらいだ less popular
24 最中に、最中だ less popular
25 次第 medium
26 せいだ、せいで、せいか medium
27 たとたん（に） medium
28 たび（に） high
29 て以来 less popular
30 とおり（に）、どおり（に） high
31 ところに、ところへ、ところを high
32 ほど、ほどだ、ほどの less popular
33 ばかりに less popular
34 ものだから written
35 ように、ような less popular
36 一方だ less popular
37 おそれがある less popular
38 ことになっている high
39 ことはない high
40 しかない high
41 ということだ medium
42 まい、まいか written
43 わけがない、わけはない less popular
44 わけにはいかない、わけにもいかない less popular
45 ～から～にかけて news
46 たとえ～ても、たとえ～でも high
47 ～さえ～ば high
48 ～も～ば～も、～も～なら～も medium
49 ～やら～やら less popular
50 だらけ high
51 っぽい high
52 がたい written
53 がちだ less popular
54 気味 high
55 ～げ less popular
56 かけだ、かけの、かける high
57 ～きる、きれる、きれない high
58 ぬく written
57 ～きる、きれる、きれない high
58 ぬく written
59 ～こそ、～からこそ high
60 ～さえ、～でさえ less popular
61 など、なんか、なんて high
62 二間して（は）、二間しても、に関する less popular
63 に加えて、に加え medium
64 に答えて、に答え、に答える、に答えた business/news
65 に沿って、に沿い、に沿う、に沿った business/news
66 に反して、に反し、に反する、に反した business/news
67 に基づいて、に基づき、に基づく、に基づいた business/news
68 にわたって、にわたり、にわたる、にわたった less popular
69 ばかりか、ばかりでなく high
70 はもとより、はもちろん less popular
71 もかまわず （もかまわない） medium
72 をこめて less popular
73 を通じて、を通して medium
74 をめぐって、をめぐる medium
75 あまり less popular
76 一方、一方で（は） medium
77 上で（は）、～上の、～上でも、～上での high
78 ～かぎり（は）、～かぎりでは、ないかぎり（は） medium
79 ～（か）と思うと、～（か）と思ったら medium
80 ～か～ないかのうちに less popular
81 ～からいうと、～からいえば、～からいって high
82 からといって high
83 ～から見ると、～から見れば、～から見て（も） high
84 きり less popular
85 ～くせに high
86 ことから written
87 ～ことに（は） less popular
88 ～上（は）、上も、上の high
89 ～た末に、た末の、の末に high
90 たところ high
91 ついでに （序に） high
92 というと medium
93 といったら less popular
94 というより medium
95 ～ば～ほど high
96 ほど high
97 かのようだ、かのような、かのように medium
98 ～つつある medium
99 てたまらない、てしょうがない high
100 てならない less popular
101 ～にきまっている medium
102 にすぎない less popular
103 に相違ない written
104 に違いない medium
105 ～べき、～べきだ、べきではない high
106 ～（より）ほか（は）ない、～ほかしかたがない medium
107 ～向きだ、～向きに、～向きの medium
108 向けだ、向けに、向けの less popular
109 もの（です）か less popular
110 ものだ、ものではない high
111 わけだ medium
112 わけではない、わけもない high
113 っけ medium
114 ～とか less popular
115 どころではない、どころではなく less popular
116 からして less popular
117 ～からすると less popular
118 からには medium
119 ことだから medium
120 だけ、だけあって、だけに、だけの medium
121 にあたって、にあたり written
122 にかけては, にかけても less popular
123 に際して written
124 ～に先立って、～に先立ち、に先立つ written
125 ～にしたら、～にすれば、にしても medium
126 につき written
127 ～につけ、～つけて（は）、～につけても less popular
128 のもとで、のもとに less popular
129 ～はともかく（として） medium
130 ～をきっかけに（して）、～をきっかけとして high
131 ～を契機に（して）、～契機として less popular
132 ～を～として、～を～とする、～を～とした high
133 ～あげく（に） medium
134 ～以上（は） high
135 ～上は less popular
136 ことなく high
137 ～際（は）、～際に less popular
138 つつ、つつも less popular
139 てからでないと、てからでなければ high
140 ～といっても high
141 どころか high
142 ～としたら、～とすれば medium
143 ないことには less popular
144 ながら high
145 にしては medium
146 にしろ、に（も）せよ、にしても less popular
147 にかかわらず、に（は）かかわりなく high
148 にもかかわらず high
149 ぬきで（は）、ぬきに（は）、ぬきの、をぬきにして（は）、はぬきにして high
150 のみならず less popular
151 ～反面、～半面 less popular
152 ～ものなら high
153 ものの less popular
154 わりに high
155 （よ）うではないか、（よ）うじゃないか high
156 得る、得ない less popular
157 かねない less popular
158 かねる less popular
159 ことか less popular
160 ことだ high
161 ざるをえない less popular
162 次第だ、次第で（は） high
163 っこない medium
164 とういものだ less popular
165 というものではない、というものでもない less popular
166 ないことはない、ないこともない medium
167 ないではいられない、ずにはいられない less popular
168 に限る、に限り、に限って high
169 に限らず less popular
170 にほかならない written
171 もの less popular
172 ものがある high
173 ようがない、ようもない high
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - JimmySeal - 2007-02-27
Woah, that must have been a lot of work typing that in. Thanks chamcham.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - dingomick - 2007-02-27
Don't suppose you already have that saved in Excel, do you?
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-02-27
Actually, I do have it in Excel now. And there's even an additional column that has the URL(s) to the jgram.org entries for each item.
Unfortunately, it wouldn't fit well in my post and I can't seem to attach Excel files using this forum. Otherwise, I would have uploaded the spreadsheet as well.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - Christoph - 2007-02-27
That is most helpful, thanks very much.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - mantixen - 2007-02-27
This is the first post I've actually saved to my hard disk as a separate file. Extremely useful. Thank you so much, and thank your friend for me. She seems very kind.
If possible, I would be interested in the Excel file. Is there another place you can post it?
Also, this isn't a big deal, but there are duplicates of lines 57 and 58.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - Jawful - 2007-02-28
I can toss your excel file up on a website, or you can host it via a free geocities site or something similar. Fabrice would probably throw it up on this site too.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - synewave - 2007-02-28
Interesting thread. Without wanting to sound like I'm dissing chamcham's teacher, this kind of grading is somewhat subjective. Although certainly not without merit, in my opinion. It might be useful to know how old chamcham's teacher is and what she does (other than teach chamcham!).
Anyway, I spoke to a teacher at my school (41 year old male) and asked him to have a look at the first chapter of the book and, using chamcham's gradings, categorize the grammar points. We discussed that perhaps catgories of formal (often written) vs casual (usually spoken) then High, Medium, Rare may potentially be better. Although that's just our opinion.
Here goes...
W - written
F - formal
H - high
M - medium
R - rare
1 として（は）、としても、としての W, F, H
2 とともに W, M
3 においては、においても、における F, H
4 に応じて、に応じ、に応じた F, H
5 にかわって、にかわり W, M
5C にかわって、にかわり H
6 に比べて、に比べ H
7 にしたがって、にしたがい M
8 につれて、につれ M
9 に対して、に対して、に対しても、に対する H
10 について（は）、につき、についても、についての H
11 にとって（は）、にとっても、にとっての H
12 に伴って、に伴い、に伴う W, M
12B に伴って、に伴い、に伴う F, M
13 によって、により、による、によっては F, M
13B によって、により、による、によっては F, H
14 によると H
15 を中心に（して）、を中心として R
16 を問わず M
17 をはじめ、をはじめとする F, H
18 をもとに、をもとにして H
There aren't many that are that different from chamcham's teacher. Although my helper seemed more averse to using the Rare grading.
As I mentioned above, context is all important. Language that is common in say a formal employment contract would most likely be very rare in a conversation between friends. But classifying it as either High or Rare could be misleading.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-02-28
Thanks for the input. She actually didn't write High, Medium, Rare, but used circle, triangle, parenthesis and some notes when needed. I just simplified it a bit. Maybe I shouldn't have done that.
Here's a direct transcription:
High = "popular in conversation"
Medium = "middle"
less popular = "less popular but sometimes we use"
written = "only written I think"
news or business = "people speak rarely, but news caster say or business only"
Instead of "rare" she wrote "less popular but sometimes we use". I just interpreted that as"we sometimes use but not really much". I'll go ahead and change it to "less popular".
She's a housewife her late 30's (used to be an OL), lived in Japan all her life, and came to America for a couple of years with her family before going back. About as average a Japanese person as you'll ever meet. She's very good at answering all of my obscure and very specific Japanese grammar questions. So that's why I asked her to do this instead of some other people.
I know that these ratings are subjective, especially since younger people might hardly use proper grammar at all, or just that people might disagree on a few points. But I get the feeling that the general sense would be about right. Maybe a few discrepencies here and there. And maybe there are environments(eg. business setting), where you make judicious use of uncommon grammar. Also, aside from "business" or "news", there were no ratings on how formal they are.
But anyway I think it's especially helpful since it gives you an idea of what would work and what wouldn't. Keep in mind that she practically read the whole book. So it's not like she just looked at the index and marked these.
Even if you don't use these ratings, if possible, I'd suggest you do something similar with another Japanese person. The Level 2 and Level 1 (ESPECIALLY Level 1) are known to have lots of grammar you'll never use in daily life. So that after the exam you could exclusively focus on using grammar that another Japanese person could see themselves using often. Also, don't forget to have them look at the book and examples. It can be deceptive if you just look at the index.
I also had her do the same thing to the Unicom Level 2 grammar book, but I'm too tired
to enter all that information right now.
Thanks for all the comments.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-02-28
OK. I changed "rare" to "less popular" and editing the original post a bit in some places(such as the category explanations).
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-05-17
I also post my usage list for the Unicom Level 2 Grammar sometime
this week. Turns out that the Unicom book has more patterns(compared to
the Kanzen Master Level 2 Grammar Book) that are more
useful for everyday speech.
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - Serge - 2007-05-17
I missed this topic when it first came up. What's the point of 'not studying less popular items unless you have time'? Most of the items that are marked 'less popular' are ALL OVER written texts. Surely, everyone studying a language also wants to be able to read?!
Kanzen Master 2-Kyuu Usage List - chamcham - 2007-05-17
Well not everyone wants to read. (Although I definitely want to read now).
Some people just don't like reading books or stories and stay away from it.
Furthermore, in Japanese, writing often uses weird grammar that you'll never hear anyone speak. It's almost another language on its own.
Sometimes I really thought that certain grammar patterns seemed useful, but I
didn't know if people ever use it. The JLPT is known to contain tons of grammar that you'll never use in real life. So I wanted to get a native speaker's opinion on the matter.
Since the JLPT, I've moved away from a textbook approach and just read a lot. My grammar books are only for reference now if I can't infer the meaning from context.
There are lots of people who've primarily learning Japanese via the JLPT and can't hold any kind of conversation in real life. For them, I think it would be useful to know which patterns they will hear frequently or rarely and use that as a base. And at the same time, they could start reading and having more conversations.