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Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tykkylumi - 2009-08-23
I apologise if this isn't the right section, but it appeared to be the most "appropriate".
I'm currently 17 years old and learning Japanese in my spare time. I will (hopefully) be going to university the year after next (I have one more year left of college and then I will be taking a gap year).
My dream job would to be a translator. However, I'd prefer to stay in England. Now -- I'm curious -- is going to university and doing Japanese what I want to be doing? It made sense to me initially but I have read things about standing out to get a job as a translator. Am I better off doing something else at university and say, talking the JLPT (for the sake of formalities and qualifications, that is)?
I'd still love to do Japanese at uni, I just need to know, well, how useful it will be to me.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tobberoth - 2009-08-23
If you study Japanese now using AJATT, you could possibly be at JLPT2 or JLPT1 level before you even start at university. I don't know about the UK, but in Sweden, you can attend a course and only go to the tests, so if you're good at Japanese, you can simply apply to Japanese AS WELL as something else, and just spend the little time needed to complete the tests and get the degree.
If you want to become a translator in England, you probably need to study both Japanese and English at the university. JLPT won't do much good, it's a Japanese test and is generally not much appreciated by foreign companies.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tykkylumi - 2009-08-23
Thank you very much for your reply, it helps a lot. I'll probably end up doing what you said as it seems like my best option.
I presume a course like this would be what I'm looking for?
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tobberoth - 2009-08-23
Yeah, that looks fitting.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - zoletype - 2009-08-23
If it's Japanese in the UK, it has to be SOAS. Pricey, but it's actually decent. Part of your course will involve a year in Japan at a Japanese university. You will come out speaking well. If you AJATT it before hand, skies the limit.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tykkylumi - 2009-08-23
Well, my heart is on Sheffield university, to be honest. It's much more suited for me and any London university is a big no-no, personally speaking. I have heard a lot of great things about Sheffield university and it also includes a year abroad at a Japanese university.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Tykkylumi - 2009-08-23
Ah yes, I was just looking at that. Thanks for the heads up.
For anyone else who is interested, the university I'm looking at has these requirements:
Quote:Entry requirements
2:1 Honours degree or equivalent in a relevant subject such as languages, linguistics and literature.
Students need to have an excellent knowledge of English and one other language.
If your first language is not English, you will need IELTS 7.0 with 6.0 in each component.
2 academic references will also be required.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Gingerninja - 2009-08-23
99% of English universitys offering Japanese allow you to study a year in Japan.. I know as i am going to university next month to Study Japanese as 1 half of my Dual honours degree.. what.. you think i was going to study 2 subjects and Japanese on the side?? pff.. sure
So providing i don't totally balls up my first year i get to spend the 2nd year in Osaka.
(studying my 2nd subject.. in Japanese! hows that for AJATT!)
Classes may be slow, but as i'll be studying Japanese anyway, might as well get it credited for my Degree.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Ezikio - 2009-08-23
Gingerninja Wrote:99% of English universitys offering Japanese allow you to study a year in Japan.. I know as i am going to university next month to Study Japanese as 1 half of my Dual honours degree.. what.. you think i was going to study 2 subjects and Japanese on the side?? pff.. sureI take it your going to Leeds then? They're the only British Uni I can think of that have their year abroad in the second year.
So providing i don't totally balls up my first year i get to spend the 2nd year in Osaka.
(studying my 2nd subject.. in Japanese! hows that for AJATT!)
Classes may be slow, but as i'll be studying Japanese anyway, might as well get it credited for my Degree.
OP, outside of Cambridge, I think that Sheffield is probably the best place for Japanese. I've been to open days at both Shef and SOAS and would definately say that Shef is better, but hey that's only my opinion. The lecturers at SOAS didn't seem all that engaging and it just seemed that Shef had a better way of teaching. I also know a number of people that have dropped out of the Japanese programme at SOAS. I guess you can interpret that in your own way.
I think you had already made your mind up but thought I'de add my 2 cents anyway
...Also, just thought I'de point out that I have nothing against Leeds. It's also a very good option. I just think that It's much more beneficial to have the year abroad in your 3rd year. Different strokes for different folks though. :p
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Gingerninja - 2009-08-23
No actually, leeds was on my list.. but im going to York St John. Its only a 3 year Degree not 4, 2nd year you spend "at least" a semester abroad, can (and will !) be extended to 2 semesters. wasn't my first choice, but the way universitys have been with accepting this year im just glad i got a place somewhere.
Most universitys are 3rd year, Leeds are York are 2nd that i looked into.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Nii87 - 2009-08-23
I vaguely remember reading that many people who attend universities in Japan tend to gravitate towards other people of their native language...Sortof like international students here in English speaking universities. Does anyone know if this tendency usually happens in the majority?
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Jarvik7 - 2009-08-23
@Nii87:
At my university in Japan (2006-2007) that was definitely the case. The majority of foreign students just associated with other people from their home country or from their JP language class, with maybe one or two natives in their social group (who always speak in English). Very few seemed to have the willpower to avoid English speakers altogether, which is THE best way to increase your speaking ability.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Diana - 2009-09-03
Not meaning to deter you, but as a 3rd year uni student, I wasn't very far off in your shoes not too long ago. I was actually in Japan the first time I was applying to universities, also at 17, and remember telling my parents my "dream" was to study Japanese and have my major ONLY be Japanese. My parents were deadset against it.
In retrospect, they were so right, and I'm so glad I went out and did international relations instead, and here's why.
I know lots of people who had Japanese as a major. Since they have no other marketable skills (so, you can speak Japanese? So can Japanese people) they had a VERY difficult time finding a job. One guy I know is half, and for some reason decided to major in it, and he also went to GW, a very good school in the DC area.
Of course, he came to Tokyo thinking he could do well for himself, but sadly, when asked what else he could do at the company interview....well, and that's why happily, his gf (and my friend) is also a halfie whose mom owns an eikaiwa and pretty much she "hired" him solely for that reason- to prevent him from going back to the US with his tail in his legs with no job. Last I checked, he's still there.
Loads of other stories with lots of other people I know too. Think really long and hard about if you really want Japanese to be your major. In my case, I'm so glad I'm doing international relations because in order to do the program I am doing now (a two year uni dual degree program with Japan) you can only be an international relations major, not any sort of language major. In my case, it worked out perfectly, because not only do I get to spend two years at a Japanese university, I also am learning stuff that is far more applicable to the real world and will make it easier for me to get a job in Japan than just somebody who speaks the language. (Heck, I do too, but I've also got another degree to back myself up!)
Also, translators make zilch. And quite often, they really end up having to educate themselves on the things they translate, minus the degree that the person they are translating for has.
If life was the way I wanted it to be, I'd be the cute girl translating Paris Hilton's wacky crazyness every Monday Night on SmapXSmap, but very often, translators end up having to know lots of stuff about insurance, or mechanics, or medicine, or equally boring stuff.
Do you really want to translate heart defibrilator instructions? Or, this is how such and such Hitachi product works, in the event that, yada yada...etc etc..
If you really have your heart set on Japanese, I'd go for a double major. Apart from professor, I don't really see how useful in the real world solely a language major would be.
But, hey, lots of people will probably disagree with me on this so let the fun begin.
Neways, that's just my two cents.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - captal - 2009-09-03
While I think Diana's post was really good (I also think majoring only in a language is not a good move) I have to disagree that translators make zilch. Maybe some or most do, but I have several friends who have done/still do translation and make bank. One in particular lives in Tokyo and does legal translation making 6 figures $US. The work is so profitable that he started up his own business doing it after doing it for a company for years. In the end I think he was mostly checking the translations that Japanese people were doing into English, but he worked his way up. He also worked a ridiculous number of hours. He majored in Japanese (and something else- business I think) at uni and has JLPT lvl 1. Probably the most important thing is that he got his translators degree (after his bachelor's) from a really good program from an Australian uni. The program is typically attended by Japanese people that come from Japan just to learn to be translators- I think it's called MAJID or something- it's a master's level degree.
edit: found it- it's called MAJIT: http://www.slccs.uq.edu.au/index.html?page=38833&pid=38833
MA in Japanese Interpretation and Translation
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Jarvik7 - 2009-09-03
captal: We may have a mutual friend
Only crappy translators with no specialized knowledge make zilch. Even translating general documents you can make $60+/hr if you get enough freelance work (aka you are good enough at translating to get things done quickly and build a reputation). The only translators who universally make nothing are literary translators, but they are usually not translating as a career. One step to becoming a good translator is through training. I did a 2yr certification program alongside my degree, but many people opt for a masters degree. Skill at translation doesn't come free with skill in a second language - just as learning to drive a car doesn't teach you how to rebuild the engine in it.
It may be better to get a specialized degree instead of a Japanese major, but it's not the only way to get a good job. Tons of people graduate with humanities degrees with no practical application and still get good jobs. It is stupid to major in a non-humanities degree that you have no interest in just because it'll improve your job prospects. It'll only make your school life miserable (reflected in your grades) and potentially help you get a job that you'll also hate.
If you want to easily get a non-eikaiwamonkey job in Japan, your best choices are Finance, IT, and Business - in that order. No offence to Diana, but an international relations degree is just as "useless" as a Japanese degree.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - captal - 2009-09-03
jarvik: he's a kiwi- that would narrow things down
Smart guy- he's also getting married this year!
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Nii87 - 2009-09-03
I still don't see the point of taking a degree for something that you can learn better on your own. A major in Japanese in this case.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Jarvik7 - 2009-09-03
Majors in Japanese cover a lot more than just Japanese language.
For example (depending on the university):
History
Culture
Pop-culture
Religion
Art
Music
Film
Linguistics
Translation
Literature
Poetry
Politics
International Relations
Business
Economics
Teaching Japanese as a second language
practical courses in making Japanese ceramics or sumi-e art
etc
As a humanities degree you are also allowed to take many electives so you can study a variety of non-Japanese stuff.
While you can of course learn Japanese on your own, you don't have to stop self-studying just because you're also taking classes. You should consider class time as just one more tool in your arsenal.
Japanese is not alone in the "you can learn it by yourself" category. You can learn EVERYTHING taught in any university by yourself, probably a lot faster than the curriculum in a class. That is what books are for.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Thora - 2009-09-03
@Jarvik - as a translator do you have an area of specialization? If so, how did you get it?
@Nii87 - Whether self-studying Japanese is the best way really depends on the what, why and when, I think. Besides, content for most degrees could be learned from books (provided it doesn't require fancy equipment). [edit: Jarvik already there] But I agree with you and others that a skill + Japanese is a good idea.
@Tykkylumi - Good luck with your choice. I want to share something with you that actually relates to your other thread (I'm too lazy to find it). I met a guy recently whose dyslexia had given him some difficulty in school. He later learned Japanese, went to university in Japan and now has a business consulting company in London. His type of dyslexia apparently didn't interfere with kanji-based texts. I realize what you have is not dyslexia, but I thought his story might be inspiring.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - bflatnine - 2009-09-03
Jarvik7 Wrote:Majors in Japanese cover a lot more than just Japanese language.This. Every word.
For example (depending on the university):
History
Culture
Pop-culture
Religion
Art
Music
Film
Linguistics
Translation
Literature
Poetry
Politics
International Relations
Business
Economics
Teaching Japanese as a second language
practical courses in making Japanese ceramics or sumi-e art
etc
As a humanities degree you are also allowed to take many electives so you can study a variety of non-Japanese stuff.
While you can of course learn Japanese on your own, you don't have to stop self-studying just because you're also taking classes. You should consider class time as just one more tool in your arsenal.
Japanese is not alone in the "you can learn it by yourself" category. You can learn EVERYTHING taught in any university by yourself, probably a lot faster than the curriculum in a class. That is what books are for.
Nii87 Wrote:I still don't see the point of taking a degree for something that you can learn better on your own. A major in Japanese in this case.Can you really not? I'll point out the obvious: in order to move on to PhD/D.Phil work. Sure, there are a few universities out there that will let you take a master's degree without a bachelor's in the language, and then move on to PhD work, but those are very few. I know I could learn Chinese just fine on my own, but most schools (and virtually all good schools) will require me to have that piece of paper first. Plus, as Jarvik mentioned, you learn a LOT more than just the language. For example, here are some of the classes that will be open to me:
History of East Asia
History of Religions of Asia
Traditional Music
Classical Japanese Literature in Translation
Modern Japanese Literature in Translation
Origins of Modern Japan
Traditional China
Modern China
Taiwanese Film and Literature
Cultural History in Late Imperial China
Traditional Chinese Art and Culture
And these are just in the Asian Cultures and Languages department. There are plenty of other classes in business, economics, art history, etc relating to China and Japan. Not to mention plenty of classes on Korea and Vietnam. Then there is whichever minor I end up taking. And all this is in addition to all the electives and such that I can take in any other department. I don't know if bachelor's degrees are similar in Australia, or if they resemble the British system more.
There are also plenty of people working jobs that simply require a bachelor's degree, regardless of the major. I worked in a management job like that for a few years. If that's the case, why not major in something enjoyable?
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Jarvik7 - 2009-09-03
Of the people I know who graduated from the Japanese program at my university, the majority of them moved on to masters Japanese studies - mostly in the field of linguistics since my university has a good jp linguistics program, but one guy I know went to Meiji to master in Buddhism. I would also probably do masters work (in either linguistics or translation theory), but I think I'm too old at 27 to go through that and still expect to find 正社員 employment in Japan (30 is "too-old"). Maybe by that time 不景気 will be over though...
@Thora: I have an extensive background in computers, technology, science (I am a former nerd and studied compsci for 3 years in university before I decided I didn't want to be a code monkey for life), and biology (same thing, but at the highschool level), but I have a lot of hobbies/interests and follow the news so I can translate pretty much everything outside of finance and legal documents.
Other than having training in translation, the other most important qualification to be a translator is to be like what I wrote above - have a lot of interests and be well read about them. You don't have to be an authority in every field, since you are translating and not writing the document. You just need to be able to understand the source (with the aid of a dictionary) and (more importantly) be able to write about it in English naturally.
If you want to be an in-house translator it really helps to have degrees in whatever field the company deals with though, since preliminary eliminations are done by paperwork and Japanese style resumes don't leave a lot of room for extrapolating on your self-gained knowledge.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - aphasiac - 2009-09-04
If you wanted to be a translator, wouldn't it make more sense to do a degree in linguistics and then study multiple languages to fluency? Knowing multiple languages = rare = profitable. Why put all your eggs in one basket with Japanese?
Also as Diana says, is being bilingual in Japanese/English actually a useful skill? Surely thousands of kids will have brought up bilingual in either America or Japan; how can someone who studies Japanese at university for 3 years compete with them?
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Jarvik7 - 2009-09-04
Nope. Linguistics has virtually nothing to do with translation, unless you want to study about the linguistics OF translation, but that is so specialized it would probably be phd material. The "ideal" path to being a translator is to major in some technical field, work as a professional in that field for several tens of years, retire, go back to school to study translation (get masters), work as a translator (having become bilingual somewhere along the way).
Being bilingual is a skill, but of course someone who has that skill plus others will be higher up on the shortlist for a job interview (the more skills the better). Knowing multiple languages will increase your potential client pool (or your attractiveness for an in-house firm), but you can still find plenty of work with just one language pair.
It's not like there is a shortage of work for non-literary translators.
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - aphasiac - 2009-09-04
Remember in the UK we don't "major" when it comes to university - we choose a subject, and then studying that subject alone. This kid is going to hardcore study Japanese for 3 years, and then come out of uni being able to speak Japanese, sure, but is that a good use of time/money?
I suppose if the goal is to do a Masters in translation at the end, then maybe it makes sense...but I'd suggest he study a more useful subject, and do Japanese in his own time OR do it twinned with another subject. Should be able to reach JLPT1 or 2 in 3 years of part time study - then he can still go for his Translation thing..
That said, I suppose uni should just be about doing something fun that you enjoy and are passionate about. So if he really wants to study and live in Japan..
Japanese at university (in England) -- worth it? - Thora - 2009-09-04
bflat9 Wrote:And these [courses] are just in the Asian Cultures and Languages department. There are plenty of other classes in business, economics, art history, etc relating to China and Japan.This is worth highlighting. At some universities, Japanese languages courses are offered outside of the Asian Studies department. There was a time when science/compsci and business/econ students taking Japanese as an elective wanted upper level courses more suited to their disciplines. The Asian Studies language courses used to focused on more traditional literature and culture. This created a bit of a turf war over which department ought to control Japanese language education. People interested in interdisciplinary studies might want to check into the types of upper level Japanese courses offered in the various departments, as well as opportunities for guided independent studies.
Also, it might be possible to study abroad for a year even if your school doesn't have a program (and even if you aren't an Asian Studies student.) I ended up doing one undergraduate year in Japan and then applying for partial credit from my home university. This involved convincing each professor (from various departments) that the content and level could be considered "equivalent" to his or her course. A reading list was enough for some. For other courses, I also had to discuss the material.
@ Aphasiac - Are you saying that a degree in Japanese in the UK doesn't also require some non-language courses? Or that Japanese cannot be taken as an elective if you are not a Japanese degree student?