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Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - Printable Version

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Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - matrixofdynamism - 2012-07-29

So I am getting to something here the concept is still somewhat hazy in my mind. I just wish you to comment on it.

The pattern is:
人
何人　　　　　how many men??
何人か some number of men
何人も a lot of men/ no men at all (depending on end of sentence)

枚
何枚 how many sheets??
何枚か some number of sheets
何枚も a lot of sheets/ no sheets at all (depending on end of sentence)
...
this continues with other counters.
and also:

いくつ how many (small items)?
いくつか a number of things
いくつも a lot of sheets/ no sheets at all (depending on end of sentence)

いくら how much money
いくらか some number of small items
いくらも a lot/ none at all, amount of money (depending on end of sentence)

I hope my summarization of knowledge gained is without flaw. What is this phenomenon called? Have I made any mistake in deriving my conclusion? Is there something I have missed? It appears to work with all counters. Why are いくつ いくら and the rest not covered together with the chapter on counters anyway?

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - Splatted - 2012-07-29

This is just my feeling, but I'd describe 何人も etc as "more people than (expected)", which could mean lots in some contexts, but not necessarily.

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - yudantaiteki - 2012-07-29

I thought it just meant "a lot", with no expectation...but maybe I'm wrong.

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - JimmySeal - 2012-07-29

I'm not so sure about 何[counter]も being used to mean "no [counter] at all". I think people do use it that way, but I'm not sure that's something I've heard very much. Did you see it somewhere?

matrixofdynamism Wrote:Why are いくつ いくら and the rest not covered together with the chapter on counters anyway?
And what chapter would that be?

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - matrixofdynamism - 2012-07-30

Sorry what I meant is a typical chapter on counters that explains counting long slender object, round objects e.t.c

They explain 1 pencil, 2 pencils, 3 pencils ... 1 page, 2 pages, 3 pages ...
but this aspect of usage of 何、か and も is not explained. This is my experience.
So this is true after all. Could you kindly explain why 何、か and も work this way with counters? ....? Smile <<<

いくつ used to ask for "how many X" where X is counted using the ひとつ、ふたつ、。。。counter. Which counter is いくら used to inquire about?? <<<

I am sure this question is one of the very interesting ones.

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - yudantaiteki - 2012-07-30

JimmySeal Wrote:I'm not so sure about 何[counter]も being used to mean "no [counter] at all". I think people do use it that way, but I'm not sure that's something I've heard very much. Did you see it somewhere?
Now that I look at this again, I think you're right -- 何人もいない should mean "There aren't a lot of people here"; if you want to say "no people" it should be 一人もいない.

matrix:
Quote:Could you kindly explain why 何、か and も work this way with counters?
"Why" questions about grammar are rarely useful. You have to get into historical linguistics and it's not very helpful in remembering for most people.

Japanese counters, with 何、か and も - Splatted - 2012-07-31

yudantaiteki Wrote:I thought it just meant "a lot", with no expectation...but maybe I'm wrong.
I guess I didn't think that through very well. Obviously in a sentence like "そのクラブは大人気。何人もいたよ" it just means lots, but I was thinking of something more along the lines of "誰も来ないと思ったけど、何人もいた",　which I think could be used to denote quite a small number of people.