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Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - kodorakun - 2009-07-28

Hi All,

So, as many of you hardcore RTK people know, if you take up some ridiculous practice plan like non-stop practice of at least 40 or 50 cards per day then soon enough you have a metric shitton of reviews to get through. For example, if you're doing 40 cards per day (what I was doing), after three days your first set of reviews begin, so now you have 40 new cards and 40 reviews (this assumes you pass everything). Seven days after your first reviews cards in your third box begin to get dumped over at 40 per day, so now you have 40 new cards, and 80 reviews to do. It get s a bit excessive.

I haven't bothered to sit down and work out a nice pace for studying, and I'm mostly overwhelmed by the fiendish desire to finish all of RTK as fast as possible, but given that I have about 500 cards to review and am still doing 30 new cards per day I feel a bit ridiculous. Has anyone worked out a nice "do X new cards this day, wait one day doing these reviews only, then do Y new cards...." etc plan that works with nice balance and still gets through Kanji at a decent pace? I'm already at ~1615 kanji, so I'll be done in a couple weeks at my current pace, but I thought I'd ask for the benefit of new comers and possibly my pursuit of RTK3 kanji.

Cheers!

-Kodorakun

P.S. Would also like to promote a very low-starred story for "Robust" I found by Blingo22. Check it out, it's probably the best quick/short story I've seen for that keyword.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - mezbup - 2009-07-28

Using Anki I did avg. of 45 cards a day and reviews we're up to 100 - 150 a day. I felt it was a manageable pace. Just don't let em snowball on ya... ugh I remember skipping a day or two and having to do like 300 - 400 reviews Sad *shudders*

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28

Hey, Kodarakun, welcome to RvTK.

Honestly, there's no real statistics when it comes to how many new cards should done in a day or how many reviews should be done in a day.

I do 50 new cards a day (or at least I have been since I got to 575) and I often get about 100 or so reviews a day. Is this a problem? No, because if you enjoy what you do and remember each day what your goals are, you can breeze through a hundred in less than an hour (I can get through about 50 in 15 minutes on a good day).

Also realize that if you keep up with your reviews each day, they WILL go down regardless of how many you do a day, I guarantee it. And thanks to Leitner and the magic of an SRS, we don't have to worry about having pure review days, we can review and learn new cards around the same time interval. When cards expire and they're supposed to be reviewed, that generally means that you should do them as soon as possible - don't leave them sitting around. As mezbup points out, they'll snowball.

I do have three pieces of advice for you, however.

1. You should find a program called 'timeleft' and timebox your sessions. Worry less about how much you can get done in those tidbits of time and just try your hardest - you'll surprise yourself.

2. Find comfortable blocks of kanji to focus on every time you learn new kanji. 5, 7, 10, 25, whatever you feel is your limit: personally, I do two blocks of 25 each day. I learn 25 from the book (actually, I write them down), and then I read stories on here for about 30 minutes. If that bodes well, then I add those 25 to my RvTK deck, and I test myself by reviewing those cards. If you don't get those blocks done within your timeboxed session, don't worry. Take a breather, come back, reset the clock, and try again. You're not in a race.

3. Study failed cards in the morning/review them at night or study failed cards at night/review them in the morning. I personally recommend the second bit instead because sleep consolidates memories and if you remember the kanji the next morning, you'll definitely remember it for when the next review date comes around.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - kodorakun - 2009-07-28

Thanks for the replies.

Kaitou, I basically have the same plan as you, two sets of either 15 or 20 cards. I write them in my note book, think of my own stories if I can do it quickly. Then I breeze through the stories on here, add the chunk to my deck. I do one Morning review, and one evening review. It works out nicely.

However, If you are passing all your tests sooner or later every review box will add the number of new cards you were initially doing EVERY DAY. I was staying on top of my reviews with diligent reviewing but I took three days off because I was in Tokyo getting drunk and BOOM, 500 reviews. SUNUVABITCH!

Also, I find it a bit excessive to review on this site AND in Anki. I have an Anki backup deck in case I'm sans internet, but to do all the reviews and stories on this site, then to go and blast through Anki is too much of a time sync. I'm already trying to power through Kanji, my textbook, and Smart.fm broadcasts every day, so... Gotta leave time for some other things too.

Thanks for the comments though, much appreciated.

-Kodorakun

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28

kodorakun Wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Kaitou, I basically have the same plan as you, two sets of either 15 or 20 cards. I write them in my note book, think of my own stories if I can do it quickly. Then I breeze through the stories on here, add the chunk to my deck. I do one Morning review, and one evening review. It works out nicely.

However, If you are passing all your tests sooner or later every review box will add the number of new cards you were initially doing EVERY DAY. I was staying on top of my reviews with diligent reviewing but I took three days off because I was in Tokyo getting drunk and BOOM, 500 reviews. SUNUVABITCH!

Also, I find it a bit excessive to review on this site AND in Anki. I have an Anki backup deck in case I'm sans internet, but to do all the reviews and stories on this site, then to go and blast through Anki is too much of a time sync. I'm already trying to power through Kanji, my textbook, and Smart.fm broadcasts every day, so... Gotta leave time for some other things too.

Thanks for the comments though, much appreciated.

-Kodorakun
Well, yeah. I just mean that in the long run you won't have lots of cards popping up at you near the end. Though I suppose that accounts for all paces when it comes to RtK.

Also, as you pointed out: You can't use both this site and Anki for reviews. I picked this site over anki because of simplicity and the ability to graphically see where cards were. Not to mention the organized story content. There was also the fact that trying to keep track of two decks is ridiculous and mind-straining.

I also suggest (just from my understanding) that you do one thing at a time. Plow through RtK and then focus on what you need to do next. You'll be able to finish RtK at a substantially faster rate if you do so. When I said I was doing 50 a day, that meant 50 a day by just focusing on the book and my reviews - by normal standards I guess that's inefficient, consider you focus on more than just the book and reviews and manage 30-40 which is dead close to what I pull off.

I'd like to think that I manage my time well, but I actually dawdle a lot, sometimes getting distracted by the allure of anime and other things.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - mafried - 2009-07-28

kodorakun, there is a mathematical model for how many reviews you will have per day after a certain amount of time at a given pace. using calculus of variations you could figure out an optimal schedule for getting through RTK with a fixed number of reviews per day.

but in the end that'd be a pretty pointless graduate-level maths exercise. the practical answer is make sure you clear your reviews every day, as much as possible. at the same time study and add cards in accordance with the amount of free time you find that you have. you will naturally reach an equilibrium.

just don't go down the road of thinking "i must add X number of reviews per day!" on that path the reviews will only get worse.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - Nukemarine - 2009-07-29

The easiest way to force a good pace that applies to you is say "I'm going to do study X minutes a session, Y sessions per day TODAY!". This works best with Anki and it's timing feature, but you can do it with RevTK.

So say you're goal per day is "30 minute study sessions, four sessions per day" and you're using RevTK as your SRS. Do the following:

1. Review all due cards (orange stacks)
2. Review all new cards from yesterday's study session (blue stack)
3. Study all missed cards (red stack)
4. Study new cards, add them to blue stack

On ANY of the steps, if your 30 minutes are up, take a break. If your fourth session is up, STOP!. Got more reviews to do? Leave them for tomorrow. Want to study another chapter? Leave it for tomorrow. Got 5 more missed cards to go over? They'll be there tomorrow.

The above forces the SRS to pace itself to your time schedule. If reviews take to long, you can't add new material. If you race through reviews due to ease or low amounts then you have more time to study.

If you like to do 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening, treat them like separate days.

Jeez, it's exactly what Mafried said, isn't it. Well, I agree with him then. The key is think of "How much time TODAY", do reviews first (old and new), reinforce missed material second, add new material last. So if you study more hours on a week-end, or day off, or holiday, then naturally you'll add more new material. Just don't sweat that you seem to only be doing reviews on your shorter study days.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - armando_amaya - 2009-08-01

Hii. I don't read stories from here, I just read from the book and work on them plus the ones I think up. Of course my pace is not as fast as your because I'm doing maybe 25-30 per day.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - Rina - 2009-08-04

The first thing I do when I turn on my laptop is to review the kanji/sentences I have for the day.
I've been adding 30 new kanji a day and have no problems with retention whatsoever. I learn the 1st ten and then review them. And the I do the same thing twice.
The first hour is spent reviewing. The following 2 hours are spent learning 30 kanji, it's kinda slow, but I want to speed it up.

I'll try to do 60 a day. I'll try to do more 30 today. If I do it, I'll surpass the 1024 mark! I'm now in frame 1000 Big Grin

I use anki btw. It's faster than RevTK (crappy internet that's why). Anki changed my studying so much. I love it!

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - wulfgar - 2009-08-08

Nukemarine Wrote:The easiest way to force a good pace that applies to you is say "I'm going to do study X minutes a session, Y sessions per day TODAY!". This works best with Anki and it's timing feature, but you can do it with RevTK.

So say you're goal per day is "30 minute study sessions, four sessions per day" and you're using RevTK as your SRS. Do the following:

1. Review all due cards (orange stacks)
2. Review all new cards from yesterday's study session (blue stack)
3. Study all missed cards (red stack)
4. Study new cards, add them to blue stack

On ANY of the steps, if your 30 minutes are up, take a break. If your fourth session is up, STOP!. Got more reviews to do? Leave them for tomorrow. Want to study another chapter? Leave it for tomorrow. Got 5 more missed cards to go over? They'll be there tomorrow.

The above forces the SRS to pace itself to your time schedule. If reviews take to long, you can't add new material. If you race through reviews due to ease or low amounts then you have more time to study.

If you like to do 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening, treat them like separate days.

Jeez, it's exactly what Mafried said, isn't it. Well, I agree with him then. The key is think of "How much time TODAY", do reviews first (old and new), reinforce missed material second, add new material last. So if you study more hours on a week-end, or day off, or holiday, then naturally you'll add more new material. Just don't sweat that you seem to only be doing reviews on your shorter study days.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, this is a method I was looking for all along. Since I am still fresh at it (350ish kanji), I have yet experience such a large volume of reviews but I know they are coming. With this method set forth, my SRS really revolves around my schedule. Furthermore, It will make me feel like kanji Is not taking over my life, thus preventing burnout and really enjoying the process. Again thanks for the method and best of luck in your travels Smile.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - mezbup - 2009-08-08

A good tip for managing reviews is don't sit down and do all your reviews and then add new cards. Towards the end u will have up to 200 reviews a day. Instead add 5 new cards, do 10% of your reviews. This way your added pile is going up while your review pile is going down and study flows much better not having to grind through 200 reviews in one go.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - bombpersons - 2009-08-09

By the way, how is everyone using time boxing? I think I get the idea of it but I'm not sure.

What I'm doing is I have my timer in 5 minute intervals and it makes sound every time it reaches 5 minutes. This is a signal for me to stop adding sentences, and start reviewing. And when the sound goes again I go back to adding cards.

Is this how everyone else is doing it?

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - blackmacros - 2009-08-09

I just have Anki set to let me do a max of 10 reviews, or 2 minutes (whatever comes first). I usually end up doing 2 or 3 bouts of reviews. Then I add cards until I start feeling bored. The I start reviewing again.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - mezbup - 2009-08-09

With time boxing I use timeleft and just set the timer for an hour and every 10 mins I switch task. So it could be 10 mins of sentence reviews, 10 mins of RTK reviews. Or 10 mins of game, 10 mins of reviews. I find with a timer ticking down its much more motivation to get off the forums and down to study.

Best Way to Pace New Cards and Reviews - nest0r - 2009-08-09

I use this: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=2421 - I prefer beginning with 20 minutes and using descending intervals of time, as well as 'null' intervals (mentioned in above link) rather than switching tasks, to maintain immersion and momentum.

Though I always recommend the '(10+2)*5' hack to people just getting into timeboxing.

I was using 'tea timer' for Firefox to measure the 'mobile' one hour block of time and I found it inobtrusive, but a few recent posts have reminded me that I might want to experiment with timeleft or Karen's countdown timer and the batch files I created back when Khatzumoto mentioned them w/ those links to batch tutorials at InspectMyGadget.

I only timebox expired cards. Otherwise I just study 25-30 new/failed cards w/ accompanying limit set in Anki. Blackmacros' method mentioned elsewhere seems compelling, but so far I haven't felt a need for it and it doesn't mesh with my feelings about timeboxing Japanese. However, now that I think of it, I might experiment with mixing it with non-Japanese timeboxing! Perhaps I'll mix new/restudied cards with my other studies in those micro-segments. After all, come to think of it, that was the original purpose of the 10+2*5 hack before I modded it to the Japanese HIIT hack. + Doing it only for the initial new card adding phase will give me space to use my 'spontaneous momentum' (http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=41343#pid41343) vocab thingy alongside what I consider the only interesting element of the Iversen method, which is adding new words in cycled clusters.