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+--- Thread: game idea (/thread-3620.html)
game idea - nest0r - 2009-07-28
Has someone already thought of this? Take Anki, with its cards + spacing algorithm, and integrate them into 3D environments where maps and spawned objects are generated based on deck information? Not sure what gameplay would be--architectural strolls that are essentially virtual renderings of the ancient mnemonic methods?
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
Like a 3d / Game gui to Anki? That would be AWESEOMEEEEE
It could just be like a simple rpg. You have a town (where you can buy weapons spells etc), a randomly generated dungeon, with random battles. Of course all this would be customizable (including town, spells, weapons etc).
In the battles you would have hp, mp and standard rpg stuff, but whenever you want to take a move, you need to pass a card, fail would mean you did nothing, hard would have a 50% chance of doing the move and anything higher would be 100%. (or something like that). Perhaps, stronger attacks would try to use harder cards, and weak attacks use easier cards?
I would love to try an make this, would a plugin (using pygame?) be best or a completely separate thing using libanki?
game idea - Balaam - 2009-07-28
I thought about doing something like this.
But it's quite a bit of work and you need to find someone with the dedication and skills to complete it!
I envisioned something like an endless dungeon, no towns, just battle after battle with the appropiate leveling up. Each card answer is an attack. If you fail the card you miss etc.
There's a game that plays itself somewhere a little like this. ProgressQuest, I think the name is.
game idea - wccrawford - 2009-07-28
I have also thought about using Anki to create a game, like Slime Forest Adventure does for Kanji.
The problem I ran into is that Anki is an SRS, and there are some problems with making a game of it.
1) Initially, the user is going to go wild playing it and have a ton of items that they go through. Later, as interest dies, they'll have way more reviews than they initially started with and won't feel like playing.
1b) You can fix that by limiting the number of actions per day to the number of reviews + new cards... But I hate being limited like that in a game.
There were other problems, but I don't remember them at the moment... The above was the worst I had come up with.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
I think, after you finished all your cards you can still play but you don't need to use cards to attack etc, and to make sure you don't play too much, you don't get any experience points. So you can only "play" when you have cards left to expire.
There would obviously have to be no lvl limit and over time as you get deeper and deeper into this infinite dungeon, the monster get stronger, better drops etc.
I really want to make this, does any one know if you can use pygame in an anki plugin? That would make it a lot easier to make as you wouldn't need to rewrite the SRS algorithm (or copy from the anki code, but it would be a pain in the arse to update)
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
This sounds awesome! I was familiar with RPG Maker VX at some point, but I wasn't a good scripter, so I wouldn't really be able to help out with a project like this, 'specially since most people wouldn't use VX for something of this scale.
How would the cards work, though? Production or recognition? It'd be really cool if there was something like shape recognition for stylus users and they could draw something in to match the card's keyword or phrase.
EDIT: also, I personally think that having a battle system laid out like Earthbound would work the best, because it frees up the screen for cards.
game idea - Tobberoth - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:I think, after you finished all your cards you can still play but you don't need to use cards to attack etc, and to make sure you don't play too much, you don't get any experience points. So you can only "play" when you have cards left to expire.I don't think a proper SRS mechanism would work in a game, the intervals are huge. I mean what would that be... 20 minutes of gaming tops each day? It would just be a graphical front-end to the reviewing, it's not like it would make it fun when it's just the same. And it would be less efficient since when you're just reviewing, you review card after card without walking around buying items or looting monsters or whatever.
There would obviously have to be no lvl limit and over time as you get deeper and deeper into this infinite dungeon, the monster get stronger, better drops etc.
I really want to make this, does any one know if you can use pygame in an anki plugin? That would make it a lot easier to make as you wouldn't need to rewrite the SRS algorithm (or copy from the anki code, but it would be a pain in the arse to update)
I think it's an interesting concept (to make studies into a game) but I don't think it would be possible to make it entertaining, nor useful. Better to simply play Japanese games for real.
game idea - drivers99 - 2009-07-28
I had an idea similar to this at one time. You have the monsters appear and when you fight them, you have to draw a kanji based on the given keyword. The easiest way to do that would be to have you say "yes" or "no" based on honesty just like in an SRS. Another way I was thinking, was to develop it for the DS and have people draw the kanji, however the expertise to detect correctly drawn kanji is something I have no idea about, so I'd leave that off for a future version perhaps. How do you go about studying though? The first time you hit a new kanji, instead of quizzing you on it, it could give you a chance to study it. You could maybe populate it with stories from this site, maybe let the user choose and/or edit their own stories. Maybe work this into a "guild" situation, like you want to study a set of 20 kanji at the guild before you move into a particular zone that has those kanji. Each zone of game represents 20 kanji, but when you get to a zone, it has all of the due cards (as monsters) and your goal is to kill all the monsters. The ones you get right will be rescheduled so you'll see them in the highest zone you've studied so far on the day that you're supposed to, ones you get wrong will show up again in the same zone, and then rescheduled earlier once you get it right. I think the way to keep it fun is to have each new zone be really cool and creative, with things to do unrelated to kanji, and a good story that develops as you move up.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
KaitouJS Wrote:This sounds awesome! I was familiar with RPG Maker VX at some point, but I wasn't a good scripter, so I wouldn't really be able to help out with a project like this, 'specially since most people wouldn't use VX for something of this scale.I would just show the card like anki does normally, so production cards would still work.
How would the cards work, though? Production or recognition? It'd be really cool if there was something like shape recognition for stylus users and they could draw something in to match the card's keyword or phrase.
EDIT: also, I personally think that having a battle system laid out like Earthbound would work the best, because it frees up the screen for cards.
I agree, earthbounds battle system would work well.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
drivers99 Wrote:I had an idea similar to this at one time. You have the monsters appear and when you fight them, you have to draw a kanji based on the given keyword. The easiest way to do that would be to have you say "yes" or "no" based on honesty just like in an SRS. Another way I was thinking, was to develop it for the DS and have people draw the kanji, however the expertise to detect correctly drawn kanji is something I have no idea about, so I'd leave that off for a future version perhaps. How do you go about studying though? The first time you hit a new kanji, instead of quizzing you on it, it could give you a chance to study it. You could maybe populate it with stories from this site, maybe let the user choose and/or edit their own stories. Maybe work this into a "guild" situation, like you want to study a set of 20 kanji at the guild before you move into a particular zone that has those kanji. Each zone of game represents 20 kanji, but when you get to a zone, it has all of the due cards (as monsters) and your goal is to kill all the monsters. The ones you get right will be rescheduled so you'll see them in the highest zone you've studied so far on the day that you're supposed to, ones you get wrong will show up again in the same zone, and then rescheduled earlier once you get it right. I think the way to keep it fun is to have each new zone be really cool and creative, with things to do unrelated to kanji, and a good story that develops as you move up.Easy peasy. Have the game divided into stories/chapters. Each chapter would be cleverly themed to suit the kanji that are in RTK's respective chapter.
bombpersons Wrote:I would just show the card like anki does normally, so production cards would still work.Yeah, but wouldn't trying to implement something to draw the kanji make it much more fun?
I agree, earthbounds battle system would work well.
Remember, guys, this isn't about 'getting off easy' and being able to easily make a game that challenges our kanji knowledge. A game has to be fun. The more interactive a game is, the more fun potential it has. I'll look around and see if there's any scripts for VX that involve shape recognition.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
KaitouJS Wrote:If we could somehow get some sort of OCR software embedded in it, you could make a system where you could have OCR for anything, even full sentences (for listening comprehension perhaps?) This might be a good feature for anki as well.bombpersons Wrote:I would just show the card like anki does normally, so production cards would still work.Yeah, but wouldn't trying to implement something to draw the kanji make it much more fun?
I agree, earthbounds battle system would work well.
Remember, guys, this isn't about 'getting off easy' and being able to easily make a game that challenges our kanji knowledge. A game has to be fun. The more interactive a game is, the more fun potential it has. I'll look around and see if there's any scripts for VX that involve shape recognition.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:Well, so far it would seem like if there was any kind of shape recognition software, it would be completely outside of the game. Like, I could imagine the game being able to open some sort of small window that you draw in, and then the software compares this picture value to a database and marks it as right or wrong. The game would then fetch this value and you'd proceed from there. It sounds really meticulous.KaitouJS Wrote:If we could somehow get some sort of OCR software embedded in it, you could make a system where you could have OCR for anything, even full sentences (for listening comprehension perhaps?) This might be a good feature for anki as well.bombpersons Wrote:I would just show the card like anki does normally, so production cards would still work.Yeah, but wouldn't trying to implement something to draw the kanji make it much more fun?
I agree, earthbounds battle system would work well.
Remember, guys, this isn't about 'getting off easy' and being able to easily make a game that challenges our kanji knowledge. A game has to be fun. The more interactive a game is, the more fun potential it has. I'll look around and see if there's any scripts for VX that involve shape recognition.
I'm still looking around on the RPG Maker forums to see if there's any shape recognition plugins, though. Maybe it might be easier than what I said.
game idea - bandwidthjunkie - 2009-07-28
Balaam Wrote:it's quite a bit of workThat is probably the understatement of the day.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
There are a few opensource OCRs:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
game idea - bandwidthjunkie - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:Neither of them are even close to good, they can't even read typed text. And they definitely can't do Japanese.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:From my understanding RPG Maker works on some sort of C++ script, but it might work on Python. I don't exactly know enough to draw any conclusions about that.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
bandwidthjunkie Wrote:I guess support for other (closed source) OCR could be added and if you happen to "own" them they could be used. This feature would have to be completely optional I guess.bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:Neither of them are even close to good, they can't even read typed text. And they definitely can't do Japanese.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
KaitouJS Wrote:I remember RPG Maker XP used ruby I think (not that it helps). If we used RPG maker there would probably be quite a few limitations aswell anywayz.bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:From my understanding RPG Maker works on some sort of C++ script, but it might work on Python. I don't exactly know enough to draw any conclusions about that.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:Not that many limitations. In fact, RPG Maker would probably be our best bet.. there's Multimedia Fusion 2 (which I am more familiar with), but you have to start from scratch and it would be really tough for a while. At least with RPG Maker, a lot of the work is done for us, and all it takes is a bit of innovation and motivation. Even if we don't come up with the system at first, we can still lay down some sort of a story framework and then base stuff around that.bandwidthjunkie Wrote:I guess support for other (closed source) OCR could be added and if you happen to "own" them they could be used. This feature would have to be completely optional I guess.bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:Neither of them are even close to good, they can't even read typed text. And they definitely can't do Japanese.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
KaitouJS Wrote:I remember RPG Maker XP used ruby I think (not that it helps). If we used RPG maker there would probably be quite a few limitations aswell anywayz.bombpersons Wrote:There are a few opensource OCRs:From my understanding RPG Maker works on some sort of C++ script, but it might work on Python. I don't exactly know enough to draw any conclusions about that.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tesseract-ocr/
http://jocr.sourceforge.net/
I'm not sure if they support Japanese however. Regardless of wether or not OCR software is opensource or not, as long as it had a command line interface available you could put it in the game.
Does RPG maker have Python support? If so it shouldn't be too hard to use anki's python library libanki with it. Though it might not be flexible enough.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
Though we need some sort of way for RPG maker to open an anki deck and read the spacing etc. Can you do that?
I was thinking writing it from scratch in python using pygame and libanki.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:Though we need some sort of way for RPG maker to open an anki deck and read the spacing etc. Can you do that?Yeah, that's the thing, I don't know. I'll have to install VX again and play around with it a bit. What's pygame and libanki, though?
I was thinking writing it from scratch in python using pygame and libanki.
game idea - Tobberoth - 2009-07-28
Ruby is extremely powerful though. If RPG Maker XP isn't putting limitations on the Ruby, you could very easily work with Anki decks from it.
game idea - bombpersons - 2009-07-28
Tobberoth Wrote:Ruby is extremely powerful though. If RPG Maker XP isn't putting limitations on the Ruby, you could very easily work with Anki decks from it.True, but would it be possible to use libanki (inner workings of anki, in python) to it? If we can't use this then we would have to rewrite the anki deck loading, saving, spacing etc and it would be too much work.
KaitouJS Wrote:We'd need to use LibAnki to get the information from the ankidecks, and pygame is a port of SDL to python.bombpersons Wrote:Though we need some sort of way for RPG maker to open an anki deck and read the spacing etc. Can you do that?Yeah, that's the thing, I don't know. I'll have to install VX again and play around with it a bit. What's pygame and libanki, though?
I was thinking writing it from scratch in python using pygame and libanki.
game idea - KaitouJS - 2009-07-28
Okay. Well, I'll go grab a copy of both XP and VX and with my limited experience in scripting I'll see if there's any potential for using them as a template for a game. But only after I finish my reviews in RvTK first.
Let's talk a little about conceptual stuff for a bit, though. Somebody mentioned how we should divide the kanji so everything's organized. I responded by saying that we should split the proposed game into 56 chapters where each one would be 'themed' around the specific primitives and kanji. Easier said than done. How would one 'theme' it like this? Would we include some sort of compelling story?
I had a little concept to work with a couple of hours back. The premise is this: the main protagonist is revered/known as the 'kanji master' (assuming we're using RTK for this game's main system). He, of course, is a kanji enthusiast.
But the protagonist should have some sort of problem. I had two ideas for this:
1. He has a obsessive-compulsive medical condition in which he must recall kanji he already knows in order to carry out certain tasks (e.g., battling).
2. Or, better yet, there's some sort of villain that the 'kanji master' must face, however, in order to delay the 'kanji master', the villain uses some sort of binding spell that forces the 'kanji master' to write down kanji on scrolls in order to carry out certain tasks (e.g., battling).
I even had another thought where each chapter would have our hero traveling by method of writing down these kanji - like for example, opening a sealed door by writing down the kanji for 'enter', but that would go against using an SRS within the game, :X.
game idea - Elphalpo - 2009-07-28
I've thought about something like this, but I couldn't really think of a fun way to incorporate learning Japanese into a game. I think what you guys are suggesting would work well enough, though. Maybe to mix things up you could have treasure chests that are opened by typing in the kana for a kanji word from some built-in vocabulary list, with rarer words offering better treasure.
I don't have any programming skills or any other skills that could be of use to you, but I give this project my full moral support!
game idea - Tobberoth - 2009-07-28
bombpersons Wrote:Yeah no, Ruby isn't compatible with Python at all. It would have to be rewritten, but it wouldn't be hard. It would still simply be reading a deck file and saving new changes to it. A simple read through the libanki code should give a pretty good idea how a deck file works. (I'm guessing the structure is quite simple, similar to an XML file or something... but I haven't really looked into it.)Tobberoth Wrote:Ruby is extremely powerful though. If RPG Maker XP isn't putting limitations on the Ruby, you could very easily work with Anki decks from it.True, but would it be possible to use libanki (inner workings of anki, in python) to it? If we can't use this then we would have to rewrite the anki deck loading, saving, spacing etc and it would be too much work.
I wouldn't be surprised if Damien has used Regexp to load and save to the Deck file, he uses it in many places in the Anki code. In such a case, a simple rewrite would be a piece of cake since Ruby has innate support of Regexp (which is much more powerful than the Python kind).