Explanation of noun types? - Printable Version +- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com) +-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html) +--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html) +--- Thread: Explanation of noun types? (/thread-3363.html)

Explanation of noun types? - Virtua_Leaf - 2009-06-23 Hey guys, I haven't posted here in a while! Yeah I was reading A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar and it says, But I'm having difficulty differentiating between these noun types. For example, what would "apple" come under? This is just as much English as anything else really. Thanks! Explanation of noun types? - Tobberoth - 2009-06-23 Apple would be group D unless you're talking about a specific apple (in which case it would be group A). Explanation of noun types? - bombpersons - 2009-06-23 I think your looking into it too much.. Explanation of noun types? - denus - 2009-06-23 The only thing that I can recall that was special about nouns is that question nouns ("who", "what", "where") can't be marked with は. Explanation of noun types? - Aijin - 2009-06-23 To paraphrase the famous quote: A は is a は is a は. Explanation of noun types? - Virtua_Leaf - 2009-06-23 Thanks for your replies everyone! So I guess practically any noun (except for WH-nouns) can be a topic, right? But I'm still confused. I just Googled が and found the title of a Niconico video: "初音ミクがオリジナル曲を歌ってくれたよ" I want to know why GA was used and not WA. If I look at the GA rules: I'm guessing it either falls under A or D (or both possibly?). If it is A, does that mean that every title of something in Japanese has to have GA and not HA (excluding special case like the comparitive HA)? Because if it's just a title of a product presumably there can be no previous discourse hence there can be no topic, right? But that can't be the case because apparently any noun can be the topic, including names (ie. 初音ミク) Sorry for trying to dissect things too much but I'm the type of student who benefits from breaking things down piece by piece rather than going off more abstract rules (they just whoosh past my aching head). Thanks! EDIT - Thinking about it that GA probably isn't D. Explanation of noun types? - Virtua_Leaf - 2009-06-23 Wait a minute, I thought the WA explanation was saying that those nouns have to be the topic. I think it means they can qualify as a topic. I just saw the sentence "空が青い". Okay, but why exactly has GA been used here? Just when does something go from subject to subject/topic or topic (ie. WA)? If someone told me to translate "the sky is blue" into Japanese would "空が青い" be correct but "空は青い"　not? Explanation of noun types? - denus - 2009-06-23 Oh, sweet petunias on a rainy day... You've just stumbled upon what must be one of the most frustrating things for someone learning Japanese: the "wa/ga" predicament. I wish I could give you a good answer, but this has always confounded people, including myself. Explanation of noun types? - Aijin - 2009-06-23 This forum needs a batlight redesigned with Magamo's name to flash in the sky, to summon him for this topic I really wish I could explain は/が in English, but I can't. I never have to think about which to use and why. My only advice is to not worry about it. Have a basic understanding, and then just use what feels natural to you (after enough exposure you shouldn't have to think about it too much). I can see where it'd be important to have an understanding for when one would be ungramatical and the other grammatical, but you should be able to memorize most of those grammatical situations. Explanation of noun types? - Tobberoth - 2009-06-23 Like Aijin said, you can't really learn by rules when to use which. Natives don't know why, so there's really no reason why you should. Learn the basics (は signifies topic and is used in comparisions, が signifies subject and answers questions) and then simply let exposure do the rest. As long as you can feel when to use は and when to use が, who cares why? Explanation of noun types? - Virtua_Leaf - 2009-06-23 Thanks guys! Yeah there's probably not much point in worrying too much. I think I'll try and pay more attention to what's being used where and when in natives' sentences. But one question. If we did take the sentences "空が青い" and "空は青い," they would have different nuances, right? Or be in response to slightly different situations or questions? For example, if you were walking with a friend in silence and suddenly remarked "the sky is blue" (as you do) would you use "空が青い?" "Sky" has only just been introduced so I'd presume so but is that the case? In that situation could you also say "空は青い" (as in HA this time), or could that only be used if you wanted to make a comparison (ie. go onto say "...but the sea isn't")?