+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-09-07
いいえ、フランス製でして、ピエール・カルダンのでございます。
こちらは7000円でしてイタリーのです。
I'm not sure what the 「でして」 means in these sentences. Is it an example of te-form being used to mean "and"? But then, what is 「でして」 the te-form of, because the te-form of です is just で.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Mushi - 2010-09-07
vinniram Wrote:いいえ、フランス製でして、ピエール・カルダンのでございます。Your own analysis sounds correct to me here. You explained it better than I ever could!
こちらは7000円でしてイタリーのです。
I'm not sure what the 「でして」 means in these sentences. Is it an example of te-form being used to mean "and"? But then, what is 「でして」 the te-form of, because the te-form of です is just で.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-09-07
vinniram Wrote:いいえ、フランス製でして、ピエール・カルダンのでございます。No, the -te form of だ is で. The -te form of です is でして, although I don't believe you can use it after adjectives.
こちらは7000円でしてイタリーのです。
I'm not sure what the 「でして」 means in these sentences. Is it an example of te-form being used to mean "and"? But then, what is 「でして」 the te-form of, because the te-form of です is just で.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Blank - 2010-09-07
OK here's some classic は/が confusion.
I recently finished a manga series and was reading some (English) reviews/forum posts about it, and several people were discussing the significance of a line that I didn't remember at all. I found the scene where it was supposedly said, and it's:
俺はおまえが思うような人間じゃない。
Then I looked up a scanlation of the scene (which I assume most of these people had been reading, as this volume hasn't been officially released in English yet), and saw that it had been translated as:
You didn't turn out like I'd hoped.
Huh?! Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see how it can mean that. Isn't it more like "I'm not the kind of person you think I am"? Seems like the おまえが思う makes it clear that it's the person being spoken to, not the speaker, who was doing the thinking/hoping. Hopefully someone can either just confirm that this is a crappy scanlation, or else educate me on why I'm wrong. If I am right, this was a particularly poor line to mistranslate because it comes at a pivotal scene and the English version makes the character saying it sound like a jerk, which I don't think was intended.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-07
Could someone please explain the following the following:
「体育の教師は、誰と誰が組もうがまったく気にしない。」
"The Phys. Ed. teacher doesn't care in the least about who everyone groups with."
-
I don't understand this use of volitional. As far as I know the usage of volition which means "let's do X" always has to be in either first person or in a quoation, ie 「カレーを食べよう」. The other case is when it's used with a non-controllable verb to indicate probability「日本語が分かろう」 = probably understands Japanese. Neither of these options seem to work here, I'm lost
Does this look like an OK translation (bold part is kind of confusing)?
「組めっていったって……男女で組んでる奴らなんかいないじゃない。私はいつもみのりんとだし、北村くんとはあんたが組んでるし。いきなり一緒にやろうなんて……絶対、死んでも、言えない。」
"Even if you say to group up... Guys and girls don't form groups right? I'm always with Minorin, and you're always with Kitamura. Absolutely under no circumstance can I ask him to do this together with me."
Is ば…から being used here in the same grammatical pattern as ば…こそ? Basically meaning "precisely because"?
「誰彼構わず気に食わなければ噛み付くから、だから名前をモジって手乗りタイガーって呼ばれるようになったんだぜ」
"Not caring about anyone else, not being able to stomach [difficulties] and snapping at people is precisely why [she] came to be called a parody of [her] name, Palmtop Tiger."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-07
Blank Wrote:OK here's some classic は/が confusion.I agree with you; おまえが思う is a noun phrase meaning "what you think"; so 俺は(おまえが思う)ような人間じゃない。 just becomes literally "I'm not the manner in which you think kind of person." I don't see at all where that other translation could have come from, seems way off O_o
I recently finished a manga series and was reading some (English) reviews/forum posts about it, and several people were discussing the significance of a line that I didn't remember at all. I found the scene where it was supposedly said, and it's:
俺はおまえが思うような人間じゃない。
Then I looked up a scanlation of the scene (which I assume most of these people had been reading, as this volume hasn't been officially released in English yet), and saw that it had been translated as:
You didn't turn out like I'd hoped.
Huh?! Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see how it can mean that. Isn't it more like "I'm not the kind of person you think I am"? Seems like the おまえが思う makes it clear that it's the person being spoken to, not the speaker, who was doing the thinking/hoping. Hopefully someone can either just confirm that this is a crappy scanlation, or else educate me on why I'm wrong. If I am right, this was a particularly poor line to mistranslate because it comes at a pivotal scene and the English version makes the character saying it sound like a jerk, which I don't think was intended.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-09-08
FooSoft Wrote:「体育の教師は、誰と誰が組もうがまったく気にしない。」V.volitional+が can mean something like V-ても. This is in the JLPT1 grammar list. From 日本語文型事典:
"The Phys. Ed. teacher doesn't care in the least about who everyone groups with."
-
I don't understand this use of volitional. As far as I know the usage of volition which means "let's do X" always has to be in either first person or in a quoation, ie 「カレーを食べよう」. The other case is when it's used with a non-controllable verb to indicate probability「日本語が分かろう」 = probably understands Japanese. Neither of these options seem to work here, I'm lost
Quote:V-ようが:X-ようがY-ようが (whether you X or Y) and X-ようがX-まいが (whether you X or not) are also in JLPT1.
「V-ても」の書きことば的な表現で「どのような行動をとっても/どのような状況であっても」という意味を表す。後ろにはそれにかからわず成立することがらや決意・要求や「自由だ/勝手だ」などの評価の表現が続く。「V-ようと」とも言いかえられる場合が多いが、「ても」とは言いかえられないことがある。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gfb345 - 2010-09-08
I always have problems figuring out how to map English sentences that use pronouns to Japanese. I understand that Japanese does not really have pronouns like English does (somewhere I even saw an argument that even words like 私, 彼, 彼女, etc. are not really pronouns in the strict linguistic sense, but I don't remember the details).
Anyway, my biggest problem is with mapping "it"-containing sentences to Japanese. For example, if I wanted to say the following sentence in Japanese:
My teacher really likes this book, so he made me read it.
The best I can come up with is:
先生はこの本が大好きですから【私に】読めさせました。
...but it feels odd to leave out anything corresponding to the final "it" in the original sentence. Is my translation correct? Is there a better one? Or rather, is there a correct translation that somehow includes an explicit counterpart to the "it"?
BTW, I imagine that the 私に bit in brackets is superfluous and would sound odd in most cases, but I'm not sure.
TIA!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-09-08
That's fine. There's no reason to restate the object of 読めさせる since it's obvious.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gfb345 - 2010-09-08
yudantaiteki Wrote:That's fine. There's no reason to restate the object of 読めさせる since it's obvious.Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-08
pm215 Wrote:V.volitional+が can mean something like V-ても. This is in the JLPT1 grammar list. From 日本語文型事典:Ahh, that sentence makes a lot more sense now, thank you pm215!
Quote:V-ようが:X-ようがY-ようが (whether you X or Y) and X-ようがX-まいが (whether you X or not) are also in JLPT1.
「V-ても」の書きことば的な表現で「どのような行動をとっても/どのような状況であっても」という意味を表す。後ろにはそれにかからわず成立することがらや決意・要求や「自由だ/勝手だ」などの評価の表現が続く。「V-ようと」とも言いかえられる場合が多いが、「ても」とは言いかえられないことがある。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - chochajin - 2010-09-09
A big thanks to Asriel and jcdietz03!!
Two short questions:
1) 本日に限って、全商品２割引にさせていただきます。
I can't figure out why に is used here. I would have used を here?!
2) 考え得るかぎりの手は尽くしたが、問題の解決には至らなかった。
I can't figure out what the "手は尽くした" part means
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2010-09-09
to chochajin
1. it's "に" because it means 'limited to the day', as opposed 'limiting the day'.
2. In this sentence, 手 means 'means' or 'way'. The sentence means (quite literally):
I exhausted(尽くした) all the means (手) I could think of but didn't reach a conclusion to the problem.
in other words,
I tried everything I could think of but couldn't solve the problem.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - chochajin - 2010-09-09
Sorry, I meant the second "ni" ２割引に(this one)させていただきます
Thank you very much for clarifying the second sentence for me
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2010-09-09
２割引にさせていただきます
２割引 (20%discount) isn't the object of the verb (which would be the price, 値段), but rather the target so it takes に if that makes sense.
It's like this:
（値段を）２割引にさせていただきます
literally:
I humbly receive (you) letting me make the price to 20% discount.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-09-09
chochajin Wrote:1) 本日に限って、全商品２割引にさせていただきます。In general, Xにする means to decide on X or make something X. So this is 全商品（は）２割引にする -- make everything they are selling a 20% discount. This is the same structure as きれいにする (make something clean/pretty), 来月にする (decide on next month [i.e. as the time for some meeting]), すしにする (decide on sushi), etc.
I can't figure out why に is used here. I would have used を here?!
２割引をする might be OK as well; there's nothing grammatically wrong with it but it might not be the normal way to say it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - chochajin - 2010-09-09
Alright, I think I got it
Big thanks to both of you!!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-09-09
もう少し大きいのが良かったが村松が気に入ったのだから仕方がない。
I just want confirmation as to how I translated this sentence. I think it's saying:
"The one that was a bit bigger was good, but, because of the one Muramatsu was pleased with, it couldn't be helped."
For some context, it's talking about buying something in a shop.
The part that confuses me is: 村松が気に入ったのだから. Is the の particle modifying the entire clause ”村松が気に入った", so that it means "The one (Muramatsu was pleased with)"? And then is だ just there to add declaratory tone, and から of course is "because"?
Thanks if you can clarify or correct my translation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-09
@vinniram
I translate it as:
"A little bit bigger one would have been good, but it's the one Muramatsu liked so it can't be helped"
Yes, の nominalizes the entire clause. だ is necessary because otherwise it would mean after/from. For instance:
私から = from me
私だから = because it's me
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-09-09
that makes more sense now. Thanks for the explanation.
I have another question:
いや、映画が終わるまで見るよ。
What does いや mean here? Does it mean "disagreeable" as in "a disagreeable movie", but then it should be 嫌な映画, so it musn't be that.
I looked up on WWWJDIC and it lists the adverb for "reluctantly" as 嫌々, but here there is only one "嫌" so I guess it can't mean "reluctantly"
So what DOES this いや mean? Thanks for any help.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-09
I think in that case, it's something of an interjection like "well" or "that is to say" but not 100% sure on this.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2010-09-09
I'd say sort of like saying "no" or いいえ.
Sort of an interjection, I guess you could say
いや、それは違うよ！ and stuff
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-09-10
Could someone explain to me what this sentence means? I would guess it is something like "Furthermore, Aisaka was hit by that ball", but I have no idea how the grammar works in the first part. Is より here being used as an adverb meaning "more", and にもよって being "by means of"? I'm sooo confused by the grammar here.
「そのボールはよりにもよって、逢坂の足にぶつかった。」
Does this look OK for a translation?
「憮然。としか表現のしようがない表情をして、逢坂はそれを手に取る。」
Expressing nothing but astonishment this on her face, Aisaka takes it in her hand.
Thanks
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-09-10
FooSoft Wrote:Could someone explain to me what this sentence means? I would guess it is something like "Furthermore, Aisaka was hit by that ball", but I have no idea how the grammar works in the first part. Is より here being used as an adverb meaning "more", and にもよって being "by means of"? I'm sooo confused by the grammar here.よりに(も)よって is an expression; don't try to break it down further.
「そのボールはよりにもよって、逢坂の足にぶつかった。」
Quote:Does this look OK for a translation?How about "With a look that could only be described as ... " ?
「憮然。としか表現のしようがない表情をして、逢坂はそれを手に取る。」
Expressing nothing but astonishment this on her face, Aisaka takes it in her hand.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-09-10
いいえ、まだです。どんな味がするんですか。
I'm having a bit of trouble with this one. The context is someone asked: "納豆をたべたことがありますか？" and this sentence is the response.
Translation: "No, not yet. What sort of flavour do I choose? (seeking explanation)?
I'm just confused about する in this case. The other sentence I've seen with する meaning "choose" was this: 「じゃ、これにする。」 So it seems to me that する meaning "to choose" takes an indirect object. So then, what is the meaning of する in the sentence at the top of this post? Is it a case of the "to choose" meaning but without indirect object, or is it a different meaning? Thanks for any help.