The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Printable Version

kanji koohii FORUM

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Printable Version

+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

It's like Shakespeare, but you can play through it on your Playstation! At least that's how I remember it.　And I've only played the English version. It's quite epic though, I suppose the Japanese version is also superb?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - albion - 2009-07-28

http://park3.wakwak.com/~pierrot/fft/co_dm.html#BackbornStory

That's where the line came from. I don't remember seeing that, but I think I must not have waited on menu screens enough.

I only have the Japanese PSP version, but I kind of want to get the English PSP one to see how they translated it (since it was done in the same style as Vagrant Story and [parts of] FFXII).

But on the subject of 'what's this word':

…我ら罪深きイヴァリースの子らが
神々の御力により救われんことを――。

Is 御力 read as おちから?

On a similar line, is 世界中 read せかいちゅう or せかいじゅう? It only comes up as one word on Window's IME as せかいちゅう. But I'm sure I've heard せかいじゅう more.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tobberoth - 2009-07-28

It's せかいじゅう. On Ubuntu using Anthy, it's the correct way, only せかいじゅう becomes 世界中. せかいちゅう becomes 瀬懐中... which makes no sense of course, so Anthy doesn't even have せかいちゅう recorded as a proper way of writing it.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - QuackingShoe - 2009-07-28

Generally じゅう means throughout something (often all over a physical location) while ちゅう means the middle of something (often time related). That.. sounded clearer in my head than it did once I typed it. But so, 世界中 is じゅう, 体中 is じゅう, 仕事中 is ちゅう, etc.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2009-07-28

Yeah, it's せかいじゅう. But I don't know if 御力 is おちから or みちから. I think I've heard both pronunciations. Maybe there is a difference in meaning, but maybe we should ask a Japanese pastor.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - albion - 2009-07-28

On that note again, 等 and 他. I've always pronounced 等 as など, but I found out lately it's とう in some cases. And その他 I always read as そのほか, but I've seen it with furigana reading そのた (if I'm remembering correctly).

Are there particular rules to it?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

等 -
音読み：　とう
訓読み：　ひとしい，など，ら
など　＝　Eｔｃ。
とう　＝　Class, Rank, Order, Equal
ひとしい　＝　等しい　＝　Equal, Similar
ら　＝　Pluralizing Suffix for "the like" and "followers" and "approximately" although　I'm sure a native speaker could explain it better.

generally

その他　＝　ほか if it's places and things and た if it's people or abstract ideas

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

[Image: vlcsnap33207.png]

[Image: vlcsnap33207.png]

べっとり？

すみません。。もう一回お願いいたします。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - taijuando - 2009-07-28

1: sticky; thick (e.g. thickly plastered); ikky; gummy;
2: to stick closely

check out the gummy green stuff on the graphic

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

Yea that's what I thought, but it doesn't show up in RikaiChan or on Google Translate...　Wonder why not...　Is it　擬態語？

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Smackle - 2009-07-28

It shows up in the Yahoo dictionaries.

べっとり3
(副)
ねばりけのあるものが一面についているさま。べったり。
・ ―(と)汗をかく

・泥が―(と)つく

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2009-07-28

albion Wrote:On that note again, 等 and 他. I've always pronounced 等 as など, but I found out lately it's とう in some cases. And その他 I always read as そのほか, but I've seen it with furigana reading そのた (if I'm remembering correctly).

Are there particular rules to it?

とう and など are grammatically different; the former is 接尾語 while the latter is 副助詞. Their meanings are partially overlapping. 接尾語 is words like らしい in 男らしい and 的 in 圧倒的. 副助詞 is words like ばかり in 話してばかり and まで in ここまで. Usually とう (接尾辞) is written in kanji, and など (副助詞) is in kana. So you'll see 等 as とう more often than など. Other than that, there doesn't seem to exist a solid rule.

As for その他, ほか and た are actually two different words, which share a lot of meanings. The former is usually in kana, and the latter is often in kanji.

That said, I don't think you need to worry about these readings. 等 as "and so on" is probably とう, and その他 is most likely そのた. When this rule fails, most of the native speakers also got it wrong or there is no definite answer.

@TheTrueBlue

Like I said, get a decent dictionary. It's a very common adverb that any decent dictionary should have an entry for. I don't know if it's an onomatopoetic word.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

I got

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1585730386/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=304485901&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=4770024800&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17AMS1G90X3CFD5V39N7

and the Internet with RikaiChan, http://ryouko.imsb.nrc.ca/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1B_%CE%EF, and http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2THEnglish?OpenView&StartKey=%E6%AD%A3&Count=30.

The only reason I asked about the bettori is because RikaiChan didn't have an entry for it even though I thought I had heard it before as stickiness (and RikaiChan is amazingly comprehensive, even MouseOver entries for terminology from Japanese myths, taxonomy, horticulture, etc.) and I was hoping it was a native play on words.

Perhaps I was too hasty in submitting the query. I will try my best to only request forum assistance when absolutely necessary.

Smackle Wrote:There's also the fact that it's not a real Japanese gameshow.

[Image: vlcsnap55806.png]

Well it does air in Japan, even if it's more of a reality show than a gameshow per-say.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Smackle - 2009-07-28

Maji De is a show-within-a-show which doesn't really exist outside of it. What might appear is I Survived a Japanese Game Show and that would be what would be advertised. It was created especially for the reality show and wasn't pre-existing. All in all, I Survived a Japanese Game Show is kind of an obscure reference to a Japanese person unless they were really an American TV fanatic.

I checked and not even I Survived a Japanese Game Show is shown in Japan.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2009-07-28

TheTrueBlue Wrote:Perhaps I was too hasty in submitting the query. I will try my best to only request forum assistance when absolutely necessary.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask a simple question. If you have trouble understanding something, posting a question should be all right even if it's painfully simple, I think.

But I understand you're a serious leaner, and I don't think asking "べっとり？" without any further comment as to what the problem is would sound like you have a problem. If you have a reason to ask such as "I thought it could be a tricky one because I couldn't find it in my dictionary," then I suggest you say so explicitly. That way some knowledgeable member might be able to answer that particular question. But then again, I'm not an admin or anything. Maybe I'm the one who's saying something stupid.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

@magamoさん　－　yes, I'll try to put as much appropriate context as possible when I ask my questions.

@Smackleさん－　Yes, it does seem the show isn't broadcast in Japan. Not the least of which is because of the incredibly negative reaction I'm seeing from Japanese BBS that discover the show.

A substanial amount of the anger appears to be directed at the Season 1 "純粋な日本人じゃない" host Tony Sano, and

”あの観客、中国か韓国人ですよね。
ファッションが誰も何十年も前のだったから。 ”

and

”観客は日本人でしょう。日本で撮影してるはずだから。
安いエキストラのバイトで集められた貧乏学生ばかりだから、ファッション的に冴えないタイプの人が多いだけじゃない？あれは、何十年も前のファッションではないよ。日本でも地方の大学の学食にでも紛れ込んだら、みんなあんな感じだよ。"

Both the hateful right-wing xenophobia of these posters and the ignorance promoting stereotyped scripting of "MAJIDE" by ABC studios here in the U.S. are upsetting.

Everytime I see the camera go to a "Japanese audience member" who just "happens" to have bad teeth (like the Jews in Passion of the Christ), I flinch. Systematic racism is a characteristic of all industrialized nations, but it's still a problem that should be eliminated.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Jarvik7 - 2009-07-28

That MAJIDE screencap of a billboard looks very photoshopped. I've seen a lot of shoops in my time and I can tell by the pixels.

Other than the awful stereotyping (the mama-san was a particularly stupid concept) in I Survived a Japanese Gameshow, it's just incredibly boring. Japan doesn't have gameshows like the rest of the world thinks it does, it has short segments on variety shows with geinoujin. Ex: Human tetris is good when it's a 10 minute segment on a show every now and then, not so good when it's a 30 minute show on every night.

It's also bad because it's a reality tv show. Really, who wants to watch a bunch of nobody contestants bickering at each other and voting people off the show. Oh yeah, most of the American TV audience apparently Sad

Sad

This is why I don't watch TV anymore.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

Jarvik7 Wrote:That MAJIDE screencap of a billboard looks very photoshopped. I've seen a lot of shoops in my time and I can tell by the pixels.

lol Jarvik don't even start with the 4chan stuff...

[Image: 500pxshopped.jpg]

[Image: 500pxshopped.jpg]

[Image: 483pxshopp.jpg]

I'm getting it via the internets, and I just like the stupid crap they have to put up with. It's similar to a not-as-gross version of Fear Factor, and here's another screenshot just to dampen the photoshop hypothesis.

[Image: vlcsnap121831.png]

[Image: vlcsnap121831.png]

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Smackle - 2009-07-28

Well, the fact of the matter is, whether shopped or not, that particular show does not air in Japan so the billboard is to create the illusion that it is.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

Smackle Wrote:Well, the fact of the matter is, whether shopped or not, that particular show does not air in Japan so the billboard is to create the illusion that it is.

Yes I already wrote that the show indeed isn't shown in Japan. The second billboard is just to test Jarvik's superb photo-shop detection skills.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Jarvik7 - 2009-07-28

By shoop I meant edited by the studio to give the appearance of native billboards, not by some internet person. Even if it's not a shoop, it's just a temporary fake ad for the sake of the US series.

I can't remember the intro, but are those scenes shown as video or as stills?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2009-07-28

Jarvik7 Wrote:By shoop I meant edited by the studio to give the appearance of native billboards, not by some internet person. Even if it's not a shoop, it's just a temporary fake ad for the sake of the US series.

I can't remember the intro, but are those scenes shown as video or as stills?

I agree, it's very possibly a half-hour rental of a billboard or somesuch. But they are live video snapshots taken by myself in VLC player. They're from episodes 4 and 5 of Season 2. The first shot has a train going by, the second one just has peripheral movement.

It was interesting though, when they got Yasuhide Nakayama 中山泰秀, Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs of Japan on the Season Finale of S1.

His appearance is even on his Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuhide_Nakayama

lol...

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ghinzdra - 2009-07-28

magamo Wrote:
ghinzdra Wrote:I have a doubt about a kanji reading/meaning.
幕　which means curtains is well known as ばく　幕府 or まく　字幕　
but now I m looking for sentence where it s supposed to be used as とばりlike in 幕あいに退席する　. What bothers me is that while EDICT does know it as とばり　it is not included as such neither in the windows IMe nor in any other online dictionnary　among which yahoo dic and sanseido .
However とばり　does exist in both of those dictionnaries and IME as 帳　so I m wondering if there hasn t been some kind of mix up as EDICT is done by amateurs and that the meaning of 帳　幕 is close.
I think 幕 could be read as とばり in a very rare case, but it's unusual. The kanji can be looked up by the reading とばり in my kanji dictionary as well, but probably it's because a kanji dictionary is supposed to be comprehensive when it comes to readings and meanings. But apparently normal dictionaries are to look up words, and IMEs in your computer to type, and hence they should be designed as such. Listing all the readings from the most popular to the uber-rare are just confusing and annoying, if you ask me. I don't know what EDICT is, but maybe it's for looking up kanji?

By the way, the reading of 幕あいに退席する is まくあいにたいせきする, not "とばり..."

thanks for a lot for this concise yet very thorough answer

would you mind give a sentence exemple with tobari ?
do you find one on this page http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%B9%95/UTF-8/?ref=sa
I guess that 夜のとばり is fine right ?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mezbup - 2009-07-28

question:

俺に関わるな

would that mean "leave me out of this."?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2009-07-29

ghinzdra Wrote:would you mind give a sentence exemple with tobari ?
do you find one on this page http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%B9%95/UTF-8/?ref=sa
I guess that 夜のとばり is fine right ?

夜のとばり is a good example. Most of the time とばり in 夜のとばり is in kana or 帳, but it can be 幕. I think I saw 霧の幕, too. In my opinion, 幕 as とばり is a poetic or literary usage. Here's an example sentence I made up:

闇の幕を突き破り、一条の光が射し込んできた。（やみのとばりをつきやぶり、いちじょうのひかりがさしこんできた）
Then through the curtain of darkness, came a ray of light.

I skimmed through the 6 pages and found no examples that are definitely とばり. I might have missed one or two とばりs, though.

mezbup Wrote:question:

俺に関わるな

would that mean "leave me out of this."?

Its literal word-for-word translation would be "Don't have anything to do with me," and it roughly means "leave me alone," "get out of my face," "none of your business," "beat it," etc. Its nuance can vary a little depending on context.