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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-05
vinniram Wrote:with this sentenceよう here is written as 用 in kanji, and it's almost the same as 用事 (ようじ) in this case. There are some cases where I personally think one is better than the other. But the difference is too slight, and it could just be my personal preference.
ざんねんですがちょっとようがあって・・・
what does ようがあって mean? my textbook gives translation of
Too bad, but I'm busy and so, uh...
But I thought よう means to feel sick? Is it then that ようがあって is an idiomatic way of saying one is busy?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-08-05
thanks for giving the kanji, now I could find the meaning online.
What does あって mean though? Is it a te-form verb?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-05
vinniram Wrote:thanks for giving the kanji, now I could find the meaning online.I don't know how your textbook and teacher teach the grammar point. But as far as I know, usually it's considered a conjugated version of the verb ある. Check your conjugation table if you have. あって (or its base form ある) in this sentence means something like "have" so 用があって means "I have something to do."
What does あって mean though? Is it a te-form verb?
The conjugation (i.e., the form of あって) makes the sentence sounds like there is an omitted clause after the word, i.e., ざんねんですがちょっとようがあって……, where the ellipsis dots indicate, um, an ellipsis of a clause. For example, the "……" could imply "I can't do that," "I can't go," etc. You can translate it as "so," "and" or something along those lines.
Combining these plus the meaning of 用 (which roughly means, "something to do"), you get "Sorry, but I have something to do. So...," hence the translation in your textbook.
On a side note, ellipsis dots in Japanese are two consecutive three dots like this: …… Not all native speakers follow this. If anything, most people ignore this in informal writing or don't know the rule in the first place. But this is the standard way professional writers write them.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-08-05
thanks for clarifying that magamo. my textbook hasn't taught plain forms of verbs yet, only -masu forms, so I was a bit confused. But I understand it now. どうもありがとう＾＾
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Mushi - 2010-08-05
vinniram Wrote:But I thought よう means to feel sick? Is it then that ようがあって is an idiomatic way of saying one is busy?As well as what others have said, take care to remember that those two ようare pronounced differently, and that it wouldn't even occur to a native Japanese speaker that they are spelled with the same kana, so if you use the wrong one, you won't be understood.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-05
Mushi Wrote:Ahh, that's why he thought it meant "to feel sick"! I was wondering where he got the translation. I never thought he read it that way.vinniram Wrote:But I thought よう means to feel sick? Is it then that ようがあって is an idiomatic way of saying one is busy?As well as what others have said, take care to remember that those two ようare pronounced differently, and that it wouldn't even occur to a native Japanese speaker that they are spelled with the same kana, so if you use the wrong one, you won't be understood.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Offshore - 2010-08-05
Does anyone know what the difference in usage (or nuance) is between 空く「あく」 and 開く「あく」? Rikaichan gives the same exact definition, and also lists both as intransitive and transitive.
I've seen 開く used before while opening doors on a video game before, but came across 空く for the first time tonight in the following sentence:
空港の近くのホテルが空いていなかったので、市内のホテルを予約した。
As there were no vacancies at any hotels near the airport, we booked one of the city hotels.
I'm guessing it's a Rikaichan thing, as KO2001 just lists 空く as meaning "to be vacant; to be empty" and an intransitive verb only. Didn't know if there were any other nuances I'm missing or something.
Also, what's the 空いていなかった in here? I'm assuming it's the -te form of 空く + いる (to express that literally, "vacancies couldn't be made," (i.e. enduring state of being as Tae Kim puts it) but idk *shrug* Just sounds funky to me but I guess I'm too used to English
Maybe I'm an over analyzer.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-06
Offshore Wrote:空港の近くのホテルが空いていなかったので、市内のホテルを予約した。Intransitive verbs like 空く need to be in the ている form if they are expressing current states, otherwise they are going to represent potential or future things.
As there were no vacancies at any hotels near the airport, we booked one of the city hotels.
Also, what's the 空いていなかった in here? I'm assuming it's the -te form of 空く + いる (to express that literally, "vacancies couldn't be made," (i.e. enduring state of being as Tae Kim puts it) but idk *shrug* Just sounds funky to me but I guess I'm too used to English
空いていなかった means "was not open".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-06
Offshore Wrote:Does anyone know what the difference in usage (or nuance) is between 空く「あく」 and 開く「あく」? Rikaichan gives the same exact definition, and also lists both as intransitive and transitive.First off, the three words 空く, 開く, and 明く are the same word. They're just written differently.
I've seen 開く used before while opening doors on a video game before, but came across 空く for the first time tonight in the following sentence:
空港の近くのホテルが空いていなかったので、市内のホテルを予約した。
As there were no vacancies at any hotels near the airport, we booked one of the city hotels.
I'm guessing it's a Rikaichan thing, as KO2001 just lists 空く as meaning "to be vacant; to be empty" and an intransitive verb only. Didn't know if there were any other nuances I'm missing or something.
Also, what's the 空いていなかった in here? I'm assuming it's the -te form of 空く + いる (to express that literally, "vacancies couldn't be made," (i.e. enduring state of being as Tae Kim puts it) but idk *shrug* Just sounds funky to me but I guess I'm too used to English
There are tons of meanings for the word "get" in English as in "I don't get it (get = understand)," "Where can I get it? (get = obtain)," "He got angry (get = become)," etc. They're all spelled the same in English. But in Japanese you may spell the same word differently by using appropriate kanji for the intended meanings. So 空く, 開く, and 明く are one word just like all the "get"s are one single English word. They're not homonyms or homophones. If you look in a J-J dictionary for native speakers, most likely they're packed in the same entry while other あくs such as 飽く are treated as different verbs.
開く tends to be used when you use あく with a nuance of "open" or "start." Like you said, when あく is used for a door, probably it's spelled as 開く. When a shop opens, it's 店が開く. This "open" is sort of "start" in the sense that it starts operating. So sometimes 開く can be translated as "start" in some situations.
The kanji 開 can also imply that a hole or space becomes existent so that something can be entered to the other side. But 空 can also have a quite similar nuance, and there is no clear-cut line between them.
空く tends to emphasize the sense of empty space. There are many possible meanings and translations for 空く, so if you want to learn it in detal, look in a decent dictionary.
The 空く in your example sentence is one of the typical usages of 空 for あく. Here the basic sense is to become empty so that the space becomes available. So it is often translated as "available." When a hotel room is available, it means the room is "empty" so you can book/use it. This "to become empty hence available" sense is the 空く in your sentence.
By conjugating it to 空いている, you can add the sense of being in that state rather than "to become." So what the first clause is saying is that no hotel rooms were in the state of "being empty hence available."
IceCream Wrote:I'm confused with いった！AとBにわかれていた is more like something had two categories A and B or was already separated into the two. But AとBにわかれていった means that something started getting separated. Maybe the separation process had completed after that, or maybe it's still getting more and more separated.
* まもなく真核生物は植物と動物に分かれていった。
* 親と全く同じ遺伝物質を均等に娘細胞へと伝えていった。
* 中生代、新世代へとさらに動・植物は繁栄を続くていった。
so... is it 行った sort of meaning? And, i don't really understand what the differences are between いった and いた. Like, you'd already express that it was "in the state of X" with いた、 so why use いった instead?
The いったs in your examples all imply that some "process" got started. Usually this usage collocates with words related to a process, progress or something that keeps happening.
This いった might be translated as "started (doing/being something)." But the focus is more on the process. In a sense, it's like "have done/been" or "had done/been." But I think the focus is slightly more on the starting point and the process than these tenses in English.
Sometimes I feel like more different translations are appropriate in some cases such as "(something) allowed X to do (process)," "(something) paved the way for (a certain good thing which requires time and effort to achieve)," etc. to make it clearer that the focus is more on the starting point and process. The third example can fall into this category if it follows a sentence or paragraph that explains how the situation was good for animals and plants. Oh, and it should read "... 続けていった," not "続くていった."
The sense of "process" might be clearer if you compare these two sentences:
たくさん勉強しなければならない。
たくさん勉強していかなければならない。
Both mean "have to study hard." But the latter has いく (i.e., して (する) +いか (いく) + なければ) and is more like, "I've got a long way to go."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-08-07
sorry, please ignore this post.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Offshore - 2010-08-07
Wow magamo! Thanks so much for the detailed explanation! It makes a lot more sense now.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - carriedawn - 2010-08-08
What is the じ in 何じ種類? What does the phrase mean with じ? (If it helps, I saw it in a sphygmomanometer manual...)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tobberoth - 2010-08-08
carriedawn Wrote:What is the じ in 何じ種類? What does the phrase mean with じ? (If it helps, I saw it in a sphygmomanometer manual...)You sure you didn't read it wrong? It's almost definitely 同じ meaning "the same".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - carriedawn - 2010-08-08
Tobberoth Wrote:That's it! Stupid mistake. 「４個同時に新しい電池と交換してください」 also makes more sense now.carriedawn Wrote:What is the じ in 何じ種類? What does the phrase mean with じ? (If it helps, I saw it in a sphygmomanometer manual...)You sure you didn't read it wrong? It's almost definitely 同じ meaning "the same".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-08-08
IceCream Wrote:lol what's a sphygmomanometer?!?!It's a device for measuring how stressed out your anki reviews are making you :-)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-09
IceCream Wrote:hmm, i guess i'd run out of batteries pretty quick ；）I think those sentences are kind of "translationese" in that "を...とよぶ" is most likely the direct translation of "A is called B" or "We call A B" in English. In science, you use "call" when defining a notion. A similar translationese phrase in science is "...と言う," which probably comes from "A is said to be B" or "We say A is B," e.g.,
kk, i got another question:
を...とよぶ. What kind of tone does this have?
e.g.
＊ その判断を視方向判断と呼ぶ
＊ そのことをバーゼンスとよんでいる
it's kind of difficult to understand because english doesn't use the を type of thing for "calling" unless it's something like, "let's take this as / call this xxx" (kind of friendly teaching tone) or "call this bit xxx" (like an polite order, in preperation for you to do something else with it) ... i think, anyway. Otherwise "call" is intranstive... (right?)
So, what kind of tone are the above two sentences? What's the difference between these and sentences where the を is は・が? Is there any good strategy for thinking about transitive concepts that we don't have in english?......
Let V be a finite set of cardinality v and B a family of subsets of V. Then the ordered pair (V, B) is called a set system. A set system is said to be transitive if a finite group acts regularly on V.
Vを濃度vの有限集合、BをVの部分集合からなる族とする。このとき順序集合(V,B)を集合系と呼ぶ。有限群がV上正則に作用するとき、集合系は推移的であると言う。
Often the defined notion is in italic or boldface type both in English and Japanese. In your examples, 視方向判断 and バーゼンス are probably in italic or boldface type. In my example, "set system (集合系)" and "transitive (推移的)" are the new notions.
You'll run into many Japanese (and English) sentence structures in science which aren't used in daily conversation. I remember it took me a while to grasp what this kind of sentence means:
絶対定数eが存在して任意の十分大きい有理数xに対して1/x < eが成り立つ。
Obviously this is the literal translation of "There exists an absolute constant e such that for any sufficiently large rational number x it holds that 1/x < e." This kind of Japanese is never used outside of science. Ever.
So, those 呼ぶs have pretty much the same tone as "call" in English.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-08-09
IceCream Wrote:hahah i am sooooo happy that i'm not trying to learn maths in Japanese!!!Hm. Maybe it becomes clear if you think of them as "（我々は）その判断を視方向判断と呼ぶ" which is the literal translation of "We call this A B" with the typical subject omission in Japanese. Of course, "we" is the omitted subject. In this case, A and B are 判断 and 視方向判断 respectively.
mm, yeah... "we call A B" will do for a nice interpretation, thanks! I'm pretty sure that "is called" is intransitive, so it would translate better as AはBとよぶ (well, that doesn't make it intransitive, but it does hide it a bit more to me...)
trying to think of a transitive "call" that doesn't involve some kind of order was making my head kinda explodes like it's some kind of a logical impossibility, so thanks!!
it's weird how translationese messes with you ><
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-08-09
just with this sentence:
ぜんぶわすれたんですか
I don't understand what the たん is doing. Isn't it just "Did you forget all of them?" and so "ぜんぶわすれましたか。” I think sometimes in my textbook, grammar points are introduced in text, then explained later. Thanks if someone can explain this though.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-09
This is the "explanatory" のだ (the の is usually contracted to ん, and here です is used instead of だ). So it's わすれた + の + です, then the の is contracted.
There are several recent threads here about のだ which may be useful to read.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vinniram - 2010-08-13
支援をお願い為ます。
I came across the below sentence and translation in my textbook:
(ごぜん)12時から(ごご)１時までです。
It is from 12 to 1.
This sentence was an answer to the question: 昼休みは何時から何時までですか。In the exercise, 昼休み goes from 12pm to 1pm. But in this sentence, it's saying it like "Lunch goes from 12am to 1pm". Is this just a 日本語の convention, in which midday is "12am" rather than "12pm"? Or did the textbook make a mistake? This used to confuse me even in english, whether to put am or pm after 12 midnight and 12 noon. Thanks if someone can clarify this.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-08-13
vinniram Wrote:Is this just a 日本語の convention, in which midday is "12am" rather than "12pm"?According to Wikipedia:
・午前0時 = 午前の最初 (beginning of the morning: midnight)
・午前12時 = 午前の最後 (ending of the morning: noon)
Following that logic, 午後12時 would be midnight (ending of the afternoon).
In practice you'd probably just say 昼12時、夜12時、or 正午.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Cosign - 2010-08-13
絶好の機会とばかりに飛びついた。
how does ばかりに fit into this sentence?
According to my understanding, ばかりに can mean 'because' or 'as if', but those definitions don't fit in this model sentence. thx
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tobberoth - 2010-08-14
Cosign Wrote:絶好の機会とばかりに飛びついた。"He jumped at it as if it was the ideal chance" is what it means, you're going to have to provide a context to prove that "as if" is not a fitting definition.
how does ばかりに fit into this sentence?
According to my understanding, ばかりに can mean 'because' or 'as if', but those definitions don't fit in this model sentence. thx
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2010-08-14
Got a few for you guys.
私は拾われた子だから。
(Situation: From "Mother," episode 1. Sort of kidnapped the girl to keep her safe from her home where the little girl was being abused.)
ただ… こうして 髪をとかしてもらうたび→
(Situation: A few lines before the one I posted above, the lady is fixing the girl's hair and the girl asks about if her Mom did that for her. The lady hates her Mom.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Mushi - 2010-08-14
TheVinster Wrote:私は拾われた子だから。Yabbut what's the question though? I would assume you're not wondering what "私" is, for example.