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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-06-03
Verdana Wrote:I'm reading a book called 泣いちゃいそうだよ and while I can follow the story, I have trouble understanding the title. What does ちゃい do in that sentence? What does the sentence mean?ちゃい → て+しまい, the continuative form of て+しまう.
泣いてしまいそうだ。
[I am] about to lose it and cry.
You can find more about しまう on Tae Kim's guide:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/unintended
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Groot - 2010-06-03
iSoron, by continuative form, do you mean the te form plus -iru? I don't see the helping verb iru in that sentence. Or maybe you mean something else?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-06-03
Groot Wrote:iSoron, by continuative form, do you mean the te form plus -iru? I don't see the helping verb iru in that sentence. Or maybe you mean something else?I mean the 連用形. Some people call it the masu-stem.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-03
I'm not entirely sure about that term; unfortunately Japanese grammatical terms in English are not standard. Typically しまい is called the "stem" or "-masu form minus -masu" or something like that.
Probably "continuative" is meant to be something like the 連用形, meaning that it connects to other words.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Groot - 2010-06-04
I ran across this sentence in Step 5 of Core 2000.
あなたは私にとって特別な人です
The given translation: "You're special to me." Read literally, I see: "As for you, to me とって special person is." What does the とって mean?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-04
The にとって is the "to me" part. It's possible that 私に might communicate that meaning as well, but にとって is often used and perhaps has the function of narrowing down the many possible meanings of に. (Not that it would be ambiguous in context, but there are many technically redundant things in languages.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Groot - 2010-06-04
Ah, thanks! I didn't even think of putting にとって into EDICT, as I was sure に was a particle and とって was something else. Sure enough, にとって is in the dictionary, with the meaning you ascribe to it. Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ems573 - 2010-06-05
I've been seeing the word こと around a lot, always just written in hiragana like that. According to rika this means "matter" or "thing", so yeah not very helpful. I got hit with this sentence in early KO2001 today:
今年の目標は漢字を500覚えることだ。
Understood everything except for that こと at the end. Here's another example that killed me:
帰国することに決めました。
From Core 2000 step 1. Anyone care to help a bro out?
Oh, and while we're at it, why is 狼 usually written in katakana (オオカミ)? It pisses me off how i went through the trouble of learning all these kanji and then they don't even use em, haha.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-06-05
ems573 Wrote:I've been seeing the word こと around a lot, always just written in hiragana like that. According to rika this means "matter" or "thing", so yeah not very helpful.こと (like もの) is very often acting as a grammar element (or as a sub-part of a larger grammar element); you should look this kind of thing up in a grammar reference rather than a dictionary.
Quote:今年の目標は漢字を500覚えることだ。In both these cases こと functions as a "nominaliser", ie it turns a verb (帰国する) into a noun (which is what Xに決める requires as its X). The Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar has a useful article on this.
帰国することに決めました。
Quote:Oh, and while we're at it, why is 狼 usually written in katakana (オオカミ)?Animal and plant names often are; apparently this is an effect of them always being in katakana in scientific writing.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Groot - 2010-06-06
Quote:In both these cases こと functions as a "nominaliser", ie it turns a verb (帰国する) into a noun (which is what Xに決める requires as its X).When I first encountered that sentence, I understood the use of こと. For a while, though, it took me a while to get why 帰国 requires する at the end. I get it now -- する "verbifies" 帰国.
Incidentally, 帰国する isn't actually "studied" formally in Core 2000 until step 4, in this (pretty straightforward) sentence.
彼は帰国しました
Core 2000 introduces new vocab in sentences before you actually "study" that word. I don't necessarily mind that.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - twinzen - 2010-06-06
Another question is why they wrote 500 instead of 500字 in that sentence. When is it ok to omit a counter?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-06
If the number is relatively big, you can drop the counter.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - waychanger - 2010-06-07
In airport announcements and in other similarly polite contexts I've heard what is apparently the tara form of a predicate.
For example, the standard -tara form of aru would be "attara."
In the airport, however, I seem to have heard "arimashitara," which I assume is the predicate arimashita, given a -tara form.
I don't recall ever having coming across this form in Japanese class. Am I correct in assuming this form is only used in extremely polite situations? Is it a form of keigo?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-07
It's a form of keigo, usually known as 丁寧語（ていねいご）. This is mostly seen in です and ます, and it just means that it shows respect to the listener, rather than honoring or humbling people (the way that 尊敬語 and 謙譲語 do).
"arimashitara" is one of a number of such expressions that you basically only hear nowadays from service personnel interacting with customers/guests/etc. "gozaimasu" is another example (not counting "arigatou gozaimasu" and other fixed phrases like that), as is "-te orimasu" applied to an inanimate object (like こちらは今日のセットメニューになっております).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - chochajin - 2010-06-07
Hello, I'm almost through with Kanzen Master's 2kyuu grammar book
I'm back with a few questions today.
1) 親子である以上、お互いの生活に無関心ではいられない。
"はいられない" - I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean here
2) 今年の八月は暑いどころか、寒かった。
This sentence is in the category "affirmative + negative", but for some reason, I don't get why the second part is negative?! *confused*
3) 留学するとしたら、日本に行きたいと思っていました。
〜なら〈仮定の表現。〉
電話をかけても、出ないとすれば、彼はもう出かけたのでしょう。
〜なら • 〜から考えれば
Is there a difference between these 2 grammar forms at all?
If yes, then I didn't get it at all.
Both mean "if", right?
4) 達也にしても悪気があってあんなことを言ったわけじゃない。
たとえ〜ても • 〜でも
When he said that, Tatsuya didn't intend to be mean-spirited, either.
<- that's the English translation that was offered, but seriously, I don't get it!
Even if Tatsuya was evil-spirited there's no reason to say such a thing.
or .... it's not like he wanted to say such a thing.
Would that be a more literal translation??!! This sentence really confused me.
5) 近くにおいでの際には、ぜひお立ち寄りください。
おいで means "come here", but what function and meaning does it have in the sentence above?
6) Ａ社は市場調査の結果のいかんに関わらず日本でのマーケティングを開始することを決めた。
What does いかん mean here?
7) 私はすっかり疲れていた。肩や頸の凝るのはもちろん、不眠症もかなり甚だしかった。のみならず偶々眠ったと思うと、いろいろの夢を見勝ちだった。
見勝ち??? I couldn't find it in any dictionary. That sentence is out of a novel, so maybe it's a madeup word?
Thanks a lot in advance
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-07
chochajin Wrote:Hello, I'm almost through with Kanzen Master's 2kyuu grammar bookLiterally "cannot exist in this manner" -- i.e. she can't be 無関心.
I'm back with a few questions today.
1) 親子である以上、お互いの生活に無関心ではいられない。
"はいられない" - I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean here
(Skip 2-4)
Quote:5) 近くにおいでの際には、ぜひお立ち寄りください。おいで means "come here" in some cases, but this is a fixed form derived from the classical conjugation of the archaic verb いず (いづ), so this is お + the -masu stem of the verb, so it's a noun. おいでの際 = the time when you arrive. (おいでになる is a sometimes occuring honorific form. The verb does not occur in the modern colloquial language except in the form おいで.)
おいで means "come here", but what function and meaning does it have in the sentence above?
Quote:6) Ａ社は市場調査の結果のいかんに関わらず日本でのマーケティングを開始することを決めた。I think the pattern is いかんにかかわらず; is that not in any of your materials?
What does いかん mean here?
(it means "no matter what" -- いかん is a contraction of いかに, which is a formal/archaic version of どう, and of course にかかわらず means "not concerning with" or something like that.)
Quote:7) 私はすっかり疲れていた。肩や頸の凝るのはもちろん、不眠症もかなり甚だしかった。のみならず偶々眠ったと思うと、いろいろの夢を見勝ちだった。look up the がち suffix; this is often written in kana instead.
見勝ち??? I couldn't find it in any dictionary. That sentence is out of a novel, so maybe it's a madeup word?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - jehy3 - 2010-06-08
まず母国語で日記を書いてから日本語にしましょう。
Wanted to clarify what this sentence means. I know all the words, but I'm not quite sure about the meaning. Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-06-08
"First write a diary in your native language and then translate it into Japanese" (or perhaps "then write in Japanese")
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-06-08
chochajin Wrote:4) 達也にしても悪気があってあんなことを言ったわけじゃない。[達也にしても][[悪気があってあんなことを言った][わけじゃない]]
Even if it is Tatsuya [we are talking about], it's not like that was said out of malice.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-06-08
chochajin Wrote:Hello, I'm almost through with Kanzen Master's 2kyuu grammar bookSo I couldn't find this in the どころか section of my copy of KM2kyuu -- can you give a page ref? Anyway, my guess is that what it's getting at is that there are two uses of どころか, one like the example above which is "far from X, it's opposite-of-X", and one which is more like "not (just) X, it's way more than X", eg あの人は英語どころかアラビア語もスワヒリ語も話せる, but it's a bit hard to say without more detail.
2) 今年の八月は暑いどころか、寒かった。
This sentence is in the category "affirmative + negative", but for some reason, I don't get why the second part is negative?! *confused*
Quote:3) 留学するとしたら、日本に行きたいと思っていました。English "if" covers a lot of different bits of Japanese grammar, so if you think of all the Japanese conditional forms as "if" you'll never get them straight :-) Anyway, this is I think an example of Kanzen Master being OK for review but hopeless for actual explanations; the following is highly summarised from 日本語文型辞典. The first type is hypothetical, where the part before としたら isn't true but is merely being considered, and the second part of the sentence is a valuation, will, or judgement type expression ("supposing I were going to study abroad, I think I'd like to go to Japan"). In the second type the condition preceding the としたら is established fact, and the second half is expressing something based on that established information ("given that he isn't answering the phone, he's probably gone out").
〜なら〈仮定の表現。〉
電話をかけても、出ないとすれば、彼はもう出かけたのでしょう。
〜なら • 〜から考えれば
Is there a difference between these 2 grammar forms at all?
If yes, then I didn't get it at all.
Both mean "if", right?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2010-06-08
chochajin Wrote:2) 今年の八月は暑いどころか、寒かった。In this case, 暑い could be considered to be our standard for "Affirmative."
This sentence is in the category "affirmative + negative", but for some reason, I don't get why the second part is negative?! *confused*
Since 寒い is the opposite of 暑い, then it must be "Negative."
The description for the meaning of どころか, as they have it:
Quote:前に言ったことはもちろん、それよりもっと程度が激しいという時や、実際はそうではなく、正反対であることを強調する時に使うI think the point in case is the bolded part.
So it's kind of like saying, "This August (which is usually hot), far from being hot, it was cold!"
It is もちろん that August should be hot, but the 実際 is not that. It's emphasizing the fact that it's contrary to your expectations.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2010-06-10
Anybody heard the phrase 'TDF' before?
Some of the girls in the high school I teach at like to mess with me and say things that I dont understand. Today a group of girls stopped me in the hallway and I was talking to them for a bit, and one of them said 'I am TDF.' Like that, in English, though the rest of the conversation was in Japanese. I asked what TDF was, and she said 「バイバイ」 and walked away laughing (the other girls standing around laughed too).
So, it seems to be some slang I don't get... and maybe it's not even usually written in roman letters. I have no idea.
Any ideas?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-06-11
Hello, I have two sentences that I would like if someone could double check for me. I think I understand them correctly but not positive
前までなら自信なさげに俯いていた彼女。
Is this 自信ない + 自信さ + げ + に and it becomes an adverb?
一緒にここまで来ていて、ただ見ているだけってのはちょっと情けな過ぎる…よな。
Shouldn't this be 情けなさ過ぎる? Is it normal to drop the さ like this?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - chochajin - 2010-06-11
Everybody, thanks so much!!!
Today I finished the 2kyuu Kanzen Master grammar book!
I do have a few more questions, though, as especially the last few grammar points seemed to be really difficult.
1) 以上のような次第で、退職することになりました。
The grammar point was "次第", but I can't figure out the meaning of the first part of this sentence at all. Is "以上のような" an idiom or expression?
2) 検査の結果次第では入院ということもあり得る。
Just want to confirm this:
Depending on the result of the examination, you might be hospitalized (being hospitalized is a possibility).
So "shidai" can mean "depening on" here?
3) 人の手紙を無断で開封するのは、プライバシーの侵害というものだ。
というものだ is one of those expressions that can't really translated and for some reasons it makes it difficult to grasp the meaning then.
Anybody can offer me some more information about the meaning?
4) grammar point: ～というものではない ・ ～というものでもない
example: 性格が絶対に変えられないというものではない。
I'm not sure I understood what it means! I couldn't find anything about this grammar point in any of my other reference books (maybe I need to buy some more, although I already have all 3 Dictionaries of Japanese grammar ... any good online resources you know of???)
Anyways can it be: (it's not like .. / you can't say that ..) ???
You can't really say that one can't change one's personality.
5) 日本人は集団行動が好きだとよく言われている。確かに、集団行動をしないことはないのだが、個人行動をとる日本人もけっこういる。
In the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar they say that this contruction "ないことはない" can only be used as an answer to a "negative" question (e.g. "You can't read Japanese?"), but then why is it here different???!!! It was also mentioned that it can never be used as the initial part of a conversation. Why is the sentence(s) above an exception then?
6) grammar point: 〜という感じがある • 〜ように感じられる
example: この絵には人を引きつけるものがある。
I'm also not sure if I understood this grammar point at all because I couldn't find any additional information about it.
It seems that this picture attracts people. ????
7) grammar point: 物がある ものがある
rikaichan says: (exp,v5r) to express strong judgement; (E)
彼の話にはどこか納得できないものがある。
"どこか" seems to be often used with this expression, does its meaning change then?
What does the grammar expression mean?
"I can't really agree with his story"????
8) 「この機械に詳しい人はいませんか。」「彼など詳しいと思いますよ。」
Expresses the speaker's emotion such as envy, happiness, anger, astonishement ...
Uhm, okay, but "He knows a lot about machines." <- I'm not sure what kind of emotion would be expressed in such a sentence. Basically it's quite indifferent, no? Maybe admiration?
9) 戦争というものは、大量殺人にほかならない。
Confirm please:
It's simply that war always goes along with a lot of murders.
10) この病気にかかると、今の医学ではどうしようもないらしい。
according to rikaichan: どう仕様もない どうしようもない (exp,uk) it cannot be helped
It doesn't really make much sense in this sentence, though.
If you get this illness, then it cannot be helped with the currenct medicine?? huh?
the currenct medicine can't do anything about it <- that sounds about right
11) 考え得るかぎりの手は尽くしたが、問題の解決には至らなかった。
I thought as much as I could about it _______________, but I couldn't ....
What I don't understand is the 手は尽くした part...
12) 拳銃所持をより厳しくコントロールせざるを得ないと思う
"motto" and "yori" both express "more" or comparative, right? Is there any difference between those two expressions?
13) あの男はちょっとしたことで暴力を振るいかねない。
～かねる: davor -masu stem, but I can't make out the original verb form here: i-kanenai
iru???
振るいる<-???!!!!
I'm very confused....
14) 私の仕事がなかなか終わらなかったので、見かねて山田さんが手伝ってくれた。
見かねて modifies 山田さん, right? Shouldn't it be 見かねた then???
15) どんなに急いだって、今からじゃ間に合いっこない。
急いだって is that derived from 急ぐ what kind of grammar struction is that then?
I thought どんなに～だって means something like "no matter how ..." I'm just confused about the 急い form I guess.
yudantaiteki Wrote:7) 私はすっかり疲れていた。肩や頸の凝るのはもちろん、不眠症もかなり甚だしかった。のみならず偶々眠ったと思うと、いろいろの夢を見勝ちだった。So it means "tend to" or "often"? as in "I often tend to dream a lot when I fell asleep sometimes" or something to that extent?
look up the がち suffix; this is often written in kana instead.
pm215 Wrote:Actually I got that sentence out of the Intermediate or Advanced Dictionary of Japanese grammar.chochajin Wrote:Hello, I'm almost through with Kanzen Master's 2kyuu grammar bookSo I couldn't find this in the どころか section of my copy of KM2kyuu -- can you give a page ref? Anyway, my guess is that what it's getting at is that there are two uses of どころか, one like the example above which is "far from X, it's opposite-of-X", and one which is more like "not (just) X, it's way more than X", eg あの人は英語どころかアラビア語もスワヒリ語も話せる, but it's a bit hard to say without more detail.
2) 今年の八月は暑いどころか、寒かった。
This sentence is in the category "affirmative + negative", but for some reason, I don't get why the second part is negative?! *confused*
Thanks a lot, though!
I'm soooo sorry that this entry got so long and I hope that you're willing to help me out again nevertheless *puppy eyes*
Thanks so much in advance!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-06-11
FooSoft Wrote:前までなら自信なさげに俯いていた彼女。I'd say it's 自信+ない+さ+げ+に. The い gets dropped. Yes, it's an adverb.
Is this 自信ない + 自信さ + げ + に and it becomes an adverb?
chocajin Wrote:3) 人の手紙を無断で開封するのは、プライバシーの侵害というものだ。AのはBというものだ。
というものだ is one of those expressions that can't really translated and for some reasons it makes it difficult to grasp the meaning then.
A is what we call B.
Reading people's letters without their permission is what we call privacy violation.
Quote:6) grammar point: 〜という感じがある • 〜ように感じられるThere's something in this picture that attracts people to it.
example: この絵には人を引きつけるものがある。
I'm also not sure if I understood this grammar point at all because I couldn't find any additional information about it.
It seems that this picture attracts people. ????
Quote:9) 戦争というものは、大量殺人にほかならない。What we call war is nothing else than mass killing.
Confirm please:
It's simply that war always goes along with a lot of murders.
Quote:12) 拳銃所持をより厳しくコントロールせざるを得ないと思う.
"motto" and "yori" both express "more" or comparative, right? Is there any difference between those two expressions?
夢見よりももっと恐ろしい現実。
Reality even more dreadful than dreams.
より → than
もっと恐ろしい → more dreadful
私より強い.
lit. Strong than me. [sic]
私よりもっと強い.
lit. More strong than me.
If you think about it, the "more" in "more strong" is superfluous; the "than" already makes it clear that you are comparing things. In Japanese you don't need it; it's used for emphasis.
Quote:13) あの男はちょっとしたことで暴力を振るいかねない。振るう
～かねる: davor -masu stem, but I can't make out the original verb form here: i-kanenai
iru???
振るいる<-???!!!!
I'm very confused....
Quote:14) 私の仕事がなかなか終わらなかったので、見かねて山田さんが手伝ってくれた。It's not modifying it. There are two sentences here:
見かねて modifies 山田さん, right? Shouldn't it be 見かねた then???
[山田さんが]見かねて、山田さんが手伝ってくれた。
Quote:15) どんなに急いだって、今からじゃ間に合いっこない。急いだって = 急ぐ (連用形) + だって
急いだって is that derived from 急ぐ what kind of grammar struction is that then?
I thought どんなに～だって means something like "no matter how ..." I'm just confused about the 急い form I guess.
No matter what amount of "hurrying up" you do, it's too late now.
Quote:So it means "tend to" or "often"? as in "I often tend to dream a lot when I fell asleep sometimes" or something to that extent?I'm pretty sure DIJG has an entry on がち.