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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-04-24

Thank you, EnjukuBlack,for the explanation.
So that's why I couldn't give a clear definition -- it doesn't really have such meaning.

This website certainly gives lighting fast help.^___^

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-04-25

I've been recently seeing a lot of usage of とは and I don't think I'm understanding it. For example (2nd line, surrounding lines for context):

書かれている事が短すぎて、本当に藤林が書いたのかどうかわからない。
とりあえず、便箋の表に書かれた字とは筆跡が違う。
もう少し長ければ、杏が書いた場合絶対にどこかボロがでるはずなんだが…。

I've found two possible meanings; definition of what comes before とは, and showing surprise/emotion. I can't really see either in this sentence. How is this particle being used in this case?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-04-26

This と is being used to link to 違う (i.e. Xと違う "different from X"), with は added to emphasize the contrastive meaning; in this case it gives a meaning like "at least" to go along with とりあえず. In other words, because the text is too short they can't say whether it's Fujibayashi's handwriting, but at the very least it's different from what's on the front of the stationary.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gibosi - 2010-04-26

I am currently trying to read キッチン by 吉本バナナ。 In the first few pages, I see アパXX情報 twice. And I am wondering what in the world?

First 仕方なく、アパXX情報を買って来てめくってみたが。。。

On the next page, 私は、アパXX情報を横目で見るのにすっかりあきて。。。

My best guess is that this might be information from a fortune teller, but it is at best, just a guess... Can anyone help me out? Thanks in advance! Smile

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-04-26

yudantaiteki Wrote:This と is being used to link to 違う (i.e. Xと違う "different from X"), with は added to emphasize the contrastive meaning; in this case it gives a meaning like "at least" to go along with とりあえず. In other words, because the text is too short they can't say whether it's Fujibayashi's handwriting, but at the very least it's different from what's on the front of the stationary.
Ah, thank you, that makes sense.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Jarvik7 - 2010-04-26

gibosi Wrote:I am currently trying to read キッチン by 吉本バナナ。 In the first few pages, I see アパXX情報 twice. And I am wondering what in the world?

First 仕方なく、アパXX情報を買って来てめくってみたが。。。

On the next page, 私は、アパXX情報を横目で見るのにすっかりあきて。。。

My best guess is that this might be information from a fortune teller, but it is at best, just a guess... Can anyone help me out? Thanks in advance! Smile
"祖母がいくらお金をきちんと残してくれたとはいえ、1人で住むにはその部屋は広すぎ
て、高すぎて、私は部屋をさがさねばならなかった。


仕方なく、アパ××情報を買って来てめくってみたが、こんなに並ぶたくさんの同じよ
うなお部屋たちを見ていたら、くらくらしてしまった。引っこしは
手間だ。"

It's clearly an apartment rental listing magazine (a real one with the name partially censored). She wants to move because her current apartment is too big and expensive for just one person.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gibosi - 2010-04-26

Jarvik7

Thank you! Yes, an apartment rental listing magazine makes much more sense! Smile

This is my first attempt to read real Japanese literature, and without Rikaichan! So it is a struggle... and it is slow... But I am able to follow the general gist of the story... 何とか分かった。。。 But this little detail threw me for a loop! Thanks again for your help!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-04-27

Just ran into this interesting pair of sentences that I would be glad if someone helped me with Smile

杏：「それでもあんたよか早く着くと思ったんだけどなぁ」
岡崎：「歩いてきてる奴とそう変わらない時間ってのはバイクが泣く」
Kyou: Nevertheless, I thought I would arrive faster than you.
Okazaki: Your bike is crying because a person on foot got here the same time you did. (???)

Is よか like より? I can't find anything about it. It seems to make sense from context though. And is the 2nd line there correct? It seems kind of whacky (and it's also very different from the shoddy translation I have for backup, but that doesn't say much).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Spines11 - 2010-04-27

In shows I hear people say something like "chiaki no baka!", where they say the person's name and then "no baka" to call them stupid.

What grammar is this? Seems like the possessive no particle, but why do they say it like that? "idiot of chiaki"...?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-04-27

Personally I just view that as idiomatic, but it's probably the descriptive の (i.e. XのY = Y is described by X, or an X kind of Y) rather than possessive.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tobberoth - 2010-04-27

FooSoft Wrote:Just ran into this interesting pair of sentences that I would be glad if someone helped me with Smile

杏：「それでもあんたよか早く着くと思ったんだけどなぁ」
岡崎：「歩いてきてる奴とそう変わらない時間ってのはバイクが泣く」
Kyou: Nevertheless, I thought I would arrive faster than you.
Okazaki: Your bike is crying because a person on foot got here the same time you did. (???)

Is よか like より? I can't find anything about it. It seems to make sense from context though. And is the 2nd line there correct? It seems kind of whacky (and it's also very different from the shoddy translation I have for backup, but that doesn't say much).
Where did you get those sentences? I've never heard of よか, guess it could be some form of dialectal thing though.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-04-27

Tobberoth Wrote:Where did you get those sentences? I've never heard of よか, guess it could be some form of dialectal thing though.
From the Clannad game/visual novel, so I'm pretty sure it's valid. However this material does have a lot of slang in it, so that might explain it (however most of the time you can kind of guess at it).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - jpkuelho - 2010-04-29

「花が落ちる」のイメージは花が丸ごとボトッと下に落ちる（↓）感じです

ボトッとということ、　何？

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2010-04-29

jpkuelho Wrote:「花が落ちる」のイメージは花が丸ごとボトッと下に落ちる（↓）感じです
Minako herself talked about this expression on the comments:
Minako Wrote:「ボトッ」は大きいものでも、小さいものでも、何かがまっすぐ真下に落ちる様子を表していると思います。
jpkuelho Wrote:ボトッとということ、　何？
~ということ、何？
→ ~というのは何ですか？
→ ~って何？

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mr_hans_moleman - 2010-04-29

jpkuelho Wrote:「花が落ちる」のイメージは花が丸ごとボトッと下に落ちる（↓）感じです

ボトッとということ、　何？
〔物が落ちたとき〕plop

http://ocndictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/82707/m0u/%E3%81%BC%E3%81%A8/

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-04-29

「Just because you don't know the reason, doesn't mean there isn't one!」は何と書きましょうか？「理由が知らないのに、理由がないことはありません。」←違いますね。（笑）

どうぞ宜しく御願いします！

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mr_hans_moleman - 2010-05-01

理由を知らないからといって、けして理由がないとは限らない

理由を知らないからといって、けして理由がないことはない

I think that's what you wanted to say. But there are more ways. Can you give us the context?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - -kiki- - 2010-05-01

Hello everyone! Smile I'm kiki. Just joined today and this is my very first post.
I'm from Anime Transcripts@アニメで英語 and its forum: Language Learning Through Anime.
Thank you so much for inviting me to this site, magamo.


FooSoft Wrote:杏：「それでもあんたよか早く着くと思ったんだけどなぁ」
岡崎：「歩いてきてる奴とそう変わらない時間ってのはバイクが泣く」
Kyou: Nevertheless, I thought I would arrive faster than you.
Okazaki: Your bike is crying because a person on foot got here the same time you did.
You translated both of them perfectly.

FooSoft Wrote:Is よか like より? I can't find anything about it. It seems to make sense from context though.
You're right. よか is short for よりかは. よか had been heard often, but these days we prefer using よりは instead.

FooSoft Wrote:And is the 2nd line there correct? It seems kind of whacky (and it's also very different from the shoddy translation I have for backup, but that doesn't say much).
It's correct. You don't need to worry about it. Big Grin

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-05-01

Awesome, thanks kiki! Big Grin

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-05-01

kiki: RTKへようこそ！宜しくお願いします！

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - -kiki- - 2010-05-01

FooSoft Wrote:Awesome, thanks kiki! Big Grin
No problem! Wink
yudantaiteki Wrote:kiki: RTKへようこそ！宜しくお願いします！
初めまして、こんにちは！こちらこそ宜しくお願いします！Wink

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-05-01

mr_hans_molemanさん、
どうもありがとうございました！＾＿＾

「理由を知らないからといって、けして理由がないことはない」was exactlt what I wanted to say. Thank you!

質問がもう一つあります。すみません。

「＿＿ていただきませんか？」と「＿＿ていただきますか？」と、間違えを教えてくれませんか？
どうぞ宜しくお願いします！m（-＿-）m

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-05-01

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking; but probably いただけますか or いただけませんか is more appropriate.

これを書いていただきますか？ - Will/do I have you write this for me?
これを書いていただけますか？ - Can I have you write this for me?

The first one is not ungrammatical but it's hard to think of a situation where it would be used, unless maybe you're asking someone else "Are you going to have [some understood third person who is higher station] write this for you?" Even then I'm not sure that would be used.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-05-01

yudantaiteki ,
Thank you. I asked because I have never seen the first example. I was wondering if it had a specific purpose. Thank you again. ^__^

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-05-01

-kiki- Wrote:Thank you so much for inviting me to this site, magamo.
Welcome to RevTK! I've been waiting for you!
-kiki- Wrote:
FooSoft Wrote:杏：「それでもあんたよか早く着くと思ったんだけどなぁ」
岡崎：「歩いてきてる奴とそう変わらない時間ってのはバイクが泣く」
Kyou: Nevertheless, I thought I would arrive faster than you.
Okazaki: Your bike is crying because a person on foot got here the same time you did.
You translated both of them perfectly.
Just to explain the meaning a bit further, それでも in the first sentence can modify either "思った" or "早く着く." From the context, I think she probably meant "I thought I'd still arrive earlier than you," i.e., 早く着く is being modified.

As for the second line, 〜が泣く is an idiomatic phrase often used when someone is not taking full advantage of a very good thing/situation or is disgracing someone or something. So it means that the thing or situation deserves much more, that it's a disgrace to it or something along those lines. For example, if you own a real guitar but don't play it because you're too lazy to learn a musical instrument, your friend might say 部屋に飾ってあるだけだなんて、ギターが泣く. Another example is when a person who has a Ph.D. in Japanese speaks atrocious Japanese and failed to communicate with native speakers. A degree is considered a sign of his academic excellence, so it's a situation where 博士号が泣く. In your example, he means something along the line of "It took about the same time to get here, huh? Your bike deserves a better owner."
-kiki- Wrote:
FooSoft Wrote:Is よか like より? I can't find anything about it. It seems to make sense from context though.
You're right. よか is short for よりかは. よか had been heard often, but these days we prefer using よりは instead.
Ah, it's interesting to hear what other native speakers think of the same phrase. Here's my explanation:

Technically it's an informal version of よりか, which is a combination of より+か. The か adds an informal nuance, and the shorter version is even more informal and used mainly in spoken language. As is the case with many other particles, you can attach は to give a stronger comparative sense. Also, よかは is ok but is much rarer than よりかは and よりは. I think it's considered wrong in standardized tests.

Xより早く着くと思った -> neutral,
Xよりか早く着くと思った -> informal and spoken language,
Xよか早く着くと思った -> more informal and definitely spoken (You might want to avoid this in standardized tests).

Xよりは早く着くと思った -> neutral. The speaker thought some people might arrive earlier than her, but she didn't think X would.

The meanings of the よりかは and よかは versions are obvious.

@-kiki-
RevTKに来てくれたんですね。ありがとう。

母語話者の意見は貴重ですし、他の人が同じ表現をどう捉えるかを聞くのはとても興味深いです。
母国語の文法というのは普段意識しないので、日本語を説明するというのはとても難しいことですが
言語というものをより深く理解する助けにもなりますし、やってみると意外と楽しいですよね。
言葉に関係ない話題でも母語話者と話すことは学習者にとってとても大切なことですし
日本人メンバーが増えてとても嬉しいです。

それではこちらでも、またLLTAでもよろしくお願いします。

I'm glad to see you here, -kiki-!

Explanations and input from a native speaker's point of view are always valuable and helpful. It's very interesting to me too to hear what other native speakers think of the exact same expressions in Japanese.

Since grammar of our native languages is below our conscious awareness, it's quite difficult to give explanations, especially when they want us to do it in a foreign language. But it's really fun and definitely helps understand how language works at a deeper level.

Oh, and talking about random stuff with native speakers helps learners in many ways too. (This also means you can learn a lot from members of RevTK here!)

@gyuujuice
A versatile translation of "Just because X doesn't mean Y" is Xからといって必ずしもYというわけではない. For example, if you want to say, "Just because you don't know the reason, doesn't mean there isn't one!" and don't care if it's natural or idiomatic, あなたが理由を知らないからといって、必ずしも理由がないというわけではない makes sense. Of course, if you want to make your Japanese sound more natural and idiomatic, you need to translate a sentence on a case-by-case basis. For example, one of idiomatic translations of your example is お前に理由がわからないからって、それが何だってんだよ！, though it may not work depending on context.