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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-03-09
Tobberoth Wrote:...I'm still trying to work out if this is sarcasm or not...pm215 Wrote:I think that basically some verbs allow the quotative particle (and most don't); 期待する is one of the verbs that accepts it. It doesn't imply that it's literally a quote of somebody's speech or thought, but hoping something isn't that far removed as a concept from thinking something, believing something or saying something...Yeah, same with なる.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-03-09
pm215 Wrote:I think that basically some verbs allow the quotative particle (and most don't); 期待する is one of the verbs that accepts it. It doesn't imply that it's literally a quote of somebody's speech or thought, but hoping something isn't that far removed as a concept from thinking something, believing something or saying something...In older Japanese, it was possible to use XとY with pretty much any verb Y to mean "Do Y with the mindset of X", or "Thinking X, do Y" -- the use of this is much more limited in modern Japanese but it's still basically what you're seeing with 期待する, I think.
One thing to remember about と is that you shouldn't construe it as narrowly marking "a quotation" in the sense that we think of it in English (i.e. something that you could put quotation marks around and that someone would literally think or say). The language has no normal way of distinguishing between indirect and direct quotes (except in writing).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
皆さん、
「なので、日本語で書かれたカトリックの聖書を探すのを手伝ってくれませんか？」の「なので」の意味を説明してくれていただきませんか？宜しくお願いします！
（辞書の説明は短く過ぎたのです。）
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-03-09
gyuujuice Wrote:皆さん、その「なので」は文章の始まりですか？そうだったら、「だから」と同じ意味で、前の文章は理由を述べたんです。「な」は「だ」の転で、「ので」は「から」みたいな意味だということなんです。「なので」は普通に文章の中に出ています（例：今日は雨なので散歩できない）。
「なので、日本語で書かれたカトリックの聖書を探すのを手伝ってくれませんか？」の「なので」の意味を説明してくれていただきませんか？宜しくお願いします！
（辞書の説明は短く過ぎたのです。）
辞書に調べたかったら、「なので」じゃなくて、「ので」を調べた方がいいと思いますが、大事林には載っています：
なので
# 〔助動詞「だ」の連体形または形容動詞の連体形語尾「な」に、原因・理由を表す接続助詞「ので」の付いたもの〕…だから。…であるので。
#
* 「雨—中止にした」
* 「静か—読書に適している」
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - gyuujuice - 2010-03-09
なるほど、「な」のところが分かっていませんでした。
説明をありがとうございます！
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-03-10
Can someone double check this translation?
「俺のような学生生活に夢も持たない人間とはまったく違う人種。」
I think it should go something like (kind of hard to translate)
"Students like me who hold no dreams for the future in their school activities are completely different from that type of person"
I was just getting a little bit tripped up by the に, but I guess it's just using the 学生生活 as an abstract place/location/time/etc?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Taurus - 2010-03-10
FooSoft Wrote:Can someone double check this translation?I *think* that the に is turning it into an adverb.
「俺のような学生生活に夢も持たない人間とはまったく違う人種。」
I think it should go something like (kind of hard to translate)
"Students like me who hold no dreams for the future in their school activities are completely different from that type of person"
I was just getting a little bit tripped up by the に, but I guess it's just using the 学生生活 as an abstract place/location/time/etc?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mr_hans_moleman - 2010-03-10
That sentence is kind of weird. Is it only me who thinks so? I googled that sentence and found the website where it's posted. The person who wrote that is a Chinese person learning Japanese, so you should be careful.
We need some help from the native speakers!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-03-10
Interesting. So you can use normal nouns/noun phrases as adverbs as well? I thought you could only use に like that with な adjectives, but come to think of it, I think I've seen it used with normal nouns too...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-03-10
mr_hans_moleman Wrote:That sentence is kind of weird. Is it only me who thinks so? I googled that sentence and found the website where it's posted. The person who wrote that is a Chinese person learning Japanese, so you should be careful.It's from the CLANNAD visual novel, so it should be a valid native sentence.
We need some help from the native speakers!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-03-10
I don't think the に is the adverb one there, I think your understanding of the "abstract place" is probably right.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tobberoth - 2010-03-10
pm215 Wrote:Why would it be sarcasm? なる IS one of the verbs which accept と without it being a quote.Tobberoth Wrote:...I'm still trying to work out if this is sarcasm or not...pm215 Wrote:I think that basically some verbs allow the quotative particle (and most don't); 期待する is one of the verbs that accepts it. It doesn't imply that it's literally a quote of somebody's speech or thought, but hoping something isn't that far removed as a concept from thinking something, believing something or saying something...Yeah, same with なる.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2010-03-10
なる doesn't exactly fit into the "not far removed as a concept from thinking something, believing something or saying something" bucket, though. I was wondering if you were trying to point out that it's a bit wider than that suggested :-)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Smackle - 2010-03-10
If I have to think of it in terms of English, I always think of と as "with", and assuming you're willing to sacrifice a natural English translation, it works.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Hinode - 2010-03-10
I heard the following idiom today (only audio, so I'm not sure whether I parsed it correctly and I don't have a good dictionary to look it up): 感謝感激雨霰 (かんしゃかんげきあめあられ) 感謝 gratitude, 感激 deep emotion, 雨霰 hail storm(?)
Does this translate to something like "I thank you from the bottom of my heart"? Is it a rather obscure thing to say?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mr_hans_moleman - 2010-03-10
＾＾
Where did you get that? I searched on google and found this:
たいへん感謝し感激していることを戯れていった言葉。
「乱射乱撃雨霰」のもじり。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ruiner - 2010-03-10
It seems to mean 'extremely grateful'. Apparently it was punned via an album titled 感謝カンゲキ雨嵐. One person explaining the latter pun suggested the rain/hail aspect refers to the extremity of the feeling. It seems to be more commonly spelled as 感謝感激雨あられ?
This site has more explanation on it: http://www2.kct.ne.jp/~suga/qgengoatari.htm (#31) - From http://www2.kct.ne.jp/~suga/qgengo.htm (#31)
Apparently it's referring to rain of bullets/etc., a wartime phrase that's growing obsolete, and refers to learning valuable lessons through harsh circumstances?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Hinode - 2010-03-10
mr_hans_moleman Wrote:＾＾Second episode of the anime "Katanagatari" around 18:20.
Where did you get that? I searched on google and found this:
たいへん感謝し感激していることを戯れていった言葉。
「乱射乱撃雨霰」のもじり。
I should have looked into it more, before posting the question here. I found an explanation: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%B4%B6%BC%D5%B4%B6%B7%E3%B1%AB%A4%A2%A4%E9%A4%EC
感謝感激雨霰
「非常にありがたい気持ちを表わす言葉。近しい間柄の相手に、少しおどけて言う。
★戦時、日本軍優勢の戦況を報じる新聞の見出しで使われた「乱射乱撃雨霰」を捩（もじ）った言葉。」
Apparently a Japanese newspaper wrote an article titled 「乱射乱撃雨霰」 (random shooting barrage), as a pun, when the Japanese army seemed to be in a favourable battle position.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2010-03-11
In this usage, is the じゃ just an abbreviation of では?
それで実際、一部じゃ人気者になってんだろ？
I've just read about it, it seems like that's what it is, but not sure. Is it just more slang-ish version of では？
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheTrueBlue - 2010-03-11
TheTrueBlue Wrote:http://i45.tinypic.com/2zdwpyv.jpgNo-one here has first-hand cultural familiarity with any of those references?
Hi again Mina-san, something native-wise in this one.
- 無意識派 = Unconscious-type? (Does it mean air-headed, ぼけ？)
- What's a "SUPARUTA" 教師 ? 厳しい先生と言うこと？
- What does "tap water" 水道水 mean in this context?
- What do tsukemono pickles mean in this context?
- Even after marriage, to want to stay raburabu, それは当たり前でしょう？違いますか？Is it the case that this author is taking it for granted that many of his readers will presume that most marriages will not be so raburabu with the passing of time? Is a raburabu
バカップル so strange after couples get married? そんなに珍しいですか？
- 賞味期限切りの弁当 = Shelf Date Passed/Expired Bentou, does that mean the husband thinks his wife is past her prime or something?
- How is 賞味期限切りの弁当 comparable to 疫病神 in this instance? What does it mean when they're attached together like this?
- 日本文化に妻と「疫病神」くらべます。。。なんかとっても残酷ですよね？
- An unrelated question, what is the correct kana pronounciation and meaning for "映示" ? Rikaichan and other dictionaries don't know it, but I see the words on DVDs and other movie-related things all the time. Is it "Eishi" or "Eiji" ?
http://i50.tinypic.com/e807l4.gif
お願い致します皆さん。
Or knows the kana pronounciation and meaning for "映示" ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-03-11
@TheTrueBlue
I'm 99.9999999% sure that the line is 400字詰原稿用紙10枚で感想をまとめてみろ (よんひゃくじづめ げんこうようし じゅうまい で かんそう を まとめて みろ). 400字詰原稿用紙 is the standard writing paper format we use for various purposes from submitting essays to writing a novel to measuring the length of your writing. There are many rules when it comes to 原稿用紙, and we learn how to use it at elementary school. 400字詰原稿用紙 is the kind of thing every single Japanese who was born and grown up in Japan knows very very veeeeery well.
As for the answers from husbands, pm215 is right on the money. Maybe the tsukemono pickles thing is difficult to understand why it's a "taken for granted" thing. In a certain kind of restaurant (called 定食屋), you always get the pickles for free. Hence it's an always-there kind of thing.
The TrueBlue Wrote:Even after marriage, to want to stay raburabu, それは当たり前でしょう？違いますか？Is it the case that this author is taking it for granted that many of his readers will presume that most marriages will not be so raburabu with the passing of time? Is a raburabuFrom the divorce rates of the US and Japan, I guess couples/parents are happier in Japan. But it could be totally wrong. Anyway, it's from a column in a magazine for house wives published 12 years ago so you should take it with a huge grain of salt. It's as unreliable as an online forum.
バカップル so strange after couples get married? そんなに珍しいですか？
TheTrueBlue Wrote:An unrelated question, what is the correct kana pronounciation and meaning for "映示" ? Rikaichan and other dictionaries don't know it, but I see the words on DVDs and other movie-related things all the time. Is it "Eishi" or "Eiji" ?I've never pronounced the word in real life probably because it's only used in the written language, though it could be part of the spoken language in certain fields such as the film industry. If I were to say it, it'd be えいじ. But it could be wrong. It means "to project (a movie or the like)," and as you said, it's a fairly frequent word but even a large dictionary for native speakers doesn't know it. There are many words that are used only in written text, and I think 映示 is one of them.
Whatsifsowhatsit Wrote:Okay, I would help if my Japanese was better (which I'm working on), but for now I just have another question.It's a variant of かすかな. Elderly people might still use it, but you don't hear it very often nowadays. By the way, are you reading 狐 by 新美南吉? If so, I recommend ごん狐 by the same author too. It's a very famous short story, but it's included in 青空文庫 so you can read it online for free. I bawwwed when I was a little kid.
「かそかな春の夜風」
I'm having trouble with the first couple of kana... I'm guessing it's a na-adjective for the 夜風, but I can't find anything in it that WWWJDIC knows about. By the way, in the audio version it sounds less like かそかな and more like かそやかな, but that still didn't help me... but maybe it'll help someone around here. Thanks in advance!
FooSoft Wrote:それで実際、一部じゃ人気者になってんだろ？Yes. Not very slang-sh, but you don't use it in formal speech etc.
I've just read about it, it seems like that's what it is, but not sure. Is it just more slang-ish version of では？
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Hinode - 2010-03-11
Thanks for the hint magamo, I'm reading ごん狐 right now. I have to say it's pretty difficult for me (probably because I've used mostly KO sentences to learn the basic vocabulary, instead of Japanese in the "wild"). I have a couple of question:
或秋のことでした。二、三日雨がふりつづいたその間（あいだ）、ごんは、外へも出られなくて穴の中にしゃがんでいました。
- How would you translate the first sentence? I get the rough meaning, but I find it hard to find a similar phrase in English.
- This is a really elementary question, but still... How do you read 「二、三日」? It's not really part of the material I use to study and too elementary even for children books to give a reading.
- x が、おられたそうです。 = x was said to exist?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Jarvik7 - 2010-03-11
One autumn, while it rained for two or three days straight, Gon stayed huddled in his (fox)hole (and never went outside).
Quote:- x が、おられたそうです。 = x was said to exist?Or more naturally for English: "It is said that there was an x (old man who lived in the woods etc)"
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2010-03-11
Hinode Wrote:- This is a really elementary question, but still... How do you read 「二、三日」? It's not really part of the material I use to study and too elementary even for children books to give a reading.It's にさんにち without a pause. You read it as if there were no comma between the two numbers. When I say it, さ gets the highest pitch and ち the lowest. I feel the second に and the ち at the end of the phrase are the same in pitch in a linguistic sense, but it seems the actual pitch of the ち is slightly lower than that of the second に. The first に is the onset of the phrase and is neutral in pitch. ん is the place you drop the pitch to put an accent on さ. This ん has a bit higher pitch than the second に, but I don't feel any mora except さ gets accented. Probably my mind recognizes にさんにち as one word.
When I use 二、三 (にさん) as one word as in 二、三の質問 (a few questions), I say に with the highest pitch and then drop the pitch to give an accent on the first mora. ん is the lowest.
I have never tried to learn the standard Japanese accent, so these might be different from what you hear on TV and whatnot.
Jarvik gave perfect answers to the other questions.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2010-03-11
JSL gives two alternate accent patterns for 二、三日: HLLLL or LHLLL.