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RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yukamina - 2016-04-22
(2016-04-22, 8:48 am)Kuroro Wrote: How do I read the word 世捨人? せしゃにん?
Here's the sentence where I found it:
人類種に残されてる領土で田舎って…そりゃもう世捨人じゃねぇのか
That aside, what does it mean when I find a line of dots next to a compound or a whole sentence? Like instead of the corresponding furigana there are just black dots.
Weblio gives よすてびと as the reading
http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E4%B8%96%E6%8D%A8%E4%BA%BA
and goo
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/thsrs/4735/meaning/m0u/
I usually check Weblio and goo dictionaries when I find a word that rikaikun and the like don't have
Dots as furigana show emphasis, like italics in English.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Kuroro - 2016-04-22
I've just double-checked and there is no て, but considering the links yukamina posted I'd say you were still right RandomQuotes. Anyway thank you both, I really appreciate it
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2016-04-22
You shouldn't expect to see a て there. Old guidelines by MEXT did say that you were supposed to provide okurigana for words like that, but in my experience that advice is not followed.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FlameseeK - 2016-04-26
(from NHK easy new)
１７日、熊本県阿蘇市の避難所のトイレの中で７０代の女性が倒れていて、そのあと、亡くなりました。
Does this mean a women from the 70's passed out in the restroom and died? Or does ７０代 mean something else? Is there anything elses to 倒れる? Initially I thought it meant she fell down, but since this is about lifestyle then I guess it means to pass out? I'm not sure since it's the first time I see this word in the wild.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zdo_vision - 2016-04-26
７０代の女性 means a women in her 70's.
In this context I would assume that 倒れる is used with the „pass out / faint / collapse” meaning.
to collapse = to fall down or become unconscious because you are sick or exhausted [Webster]
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FlameseeK - 2016-04-29
Question 1
レベル：総合的な能力の高さを示す値
Is 値 supposed to be read as あたい here? I don't think it could be considered a suffix here because it's right after a verb, but I've never seen this word before so I'd like to make sure.
Question 2
How do you know the pronunciation of certain kanji in compounds when the word isn't in the dictionary?
For instace, I know that 版 is はん and that sometimes it's also read as ばん in compounds, e.g. 劇場版. But I've seen words not included in the dictionary, such as PC版, and I have no idea which reading is correct. My gut feelings tell me it's ばん just like in 劇場版, but the jisho.org only lists it as a noun and not a suffix, so logically it should be はん in my opinion.
I've seen other cases like this before, but I just can't recall them. I always get confused when this happens.
EDIT: Just found yet another word not in the dictionary: 基礎力. Since 力 is considered a suffix, I guess it should be きそりょく.
However, sometimes a lot of words are put together in Japanese, that is to say, in a sequence of kanji without any hiragana connecting them - e.g. 装備重量 rather than 装備の重量 or something. So technically, I guess ちから is also a possibility? I mean, I don't know what other reason would there be for 基礎力 not to be listed in an online dictionary, other than the fact that these are 2 separate words as opposed to 力 being used as a suffix. Or is it just normal for Japanese to go around putting compounds together and coming up with new words whenever they feel like doing so? Confusing...
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2016-04-30
(2016-04-29, 11:37 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: Question 1
レベル：総合的な能力の高さを示す値
Is 値 supposed to be read as あたい here? I don't think it could be considered a suffix here because it's right after a verb, but I've never seen this word before so I'd like to make sure.
Question 2
How do you know the pronunciation of certain kanji in compounds when the word isn't in the dictionary?
For instace, I know that 版 is はん and that sometimes it's also read as ばん in compounds, e.g. 劇場版. But I've seen words not included in the dictionary, such as PC版, and I have no idea which reading is correct. My gut feelings tell me it's ばん just like in 劇場版, but the jisho.org only lists it as a noun and not a suffix, so logically it should be はん in my opinion.
I've seen other cases like this before, but I just can't recall them. I always get confused when this happens.
EDIT: Just found yet another word not in the dictionary: 基礎力. Since 力 is considered a suffix, I guess it should be きそりょく.
However, sometimes a lot of words are put together in Japanese, that is to say, in a sequence of kanji without any hiragana connecting them - e.g. 装備重量 rather than 装備の重量 or something. So technically, I guess ちから is also a possibility? I mean, I don't know what other reason would there be for 基礎力 not to be listed in an online dictionary, other than the fact that these are 2 separate words as opposed to 力 being used as a suffix. Or is it just normal for Japanese to go around putting compounds together and coming up with new words whenever they feel like doing so? Confusing...
1 would be read あたい ; the structure has to be a verb modifying a noun, and the other possible reading ね is strictly used for monetary worth, leaving only あたい.
2 PC版 is read ピーシーはん ; I'm not sure I've heard the phrase spoken, but I would expect 基礎力 to be きそりょく.
Generally speaking, the term appearing in the dictionary as a 'suffix' or 'prefix' can be freely added to other nouns without any intervening particles or other grammatical glue. Such words should take the reading as it appears in its entry as a prefix or a suffix.
If a compound term like that becomes extremely common, acquires pronunciation shifts (like はん to ばん), or acquires a meaning that is not strictly what is expected from adding the prefix or suffix to the base noun, then it's going to start appearing in dictionaries. There are, however, a lot of times when prefixes and suffixes are added to nouns on the fly.
基礎の力 on the other hand, would be read きそのちから.
As for 装備重量, it does appear in at least some dictionaries, http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/srch/all/%E8%A3%85%E5%82%99%E9%87%8D%E9%87%8F/m0u/
Of course, at some point somebody takes to words and makes them into a compound for the first time. Generally this is done only with ON-reading words. If the meaning isn't flat out obvious, and there's no dictionary entry for it, then there will surely be a chiebukuro entry discussing the correct meaning. It's rarer to stick kun-readings together, but it does happen. It almost never happens that kun and ON readings get stuck together ; there is a smattering of words like that in the language, but it's not something you expect of a newly coined compound.
Meanings are usually explained when people are coining a new compound or using an uncommon compound. Some compounds, of course, only appear in specialized dictionaries and you may not be able to easily find a dictionary entry in free web-based resources, so that can be tough if you get into jargon-heavy reading material at a level where the author will assume the reader already knows the jargon or has access to specialized dictionaries.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FlameseeK - 2016-04-30
Are you sure you've heard はん in PC版 before? I'm so confused that I've just decided to search for youtube videos where this word is used. I'll see if I can find other videos, but in the first video I watched the person actually says ばん. I've only seen this one though, so I'll keep looking to see if I can find other videos. I was pretty much in the middle of doing this "hunt" when you replied, so I still have to read the rest of your post, but I'd like to thank you for the input in advance. These detailed posts help me a lot.
EDIT: It seems kind of tricky to find videos where people say these words, but I've found another one (and yet another one) where the person says ばん, but in this case the word is Windows版 instead. Obviously, another case of a word that isn't in the dictionary. I have no idea why ばん isn't listed as a suffix now... lol... but I supposed we can assume that ばん is used at the end of every word when it looks like a suffix, even if the dictionary doesn't list it as one?
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2016-04-30
That's strange.... I thought I had, but I must have misremembered or misheard.
It turns out though that google IME will convert PCばん but not PCはん, which is a strong suggestion that only one is correct and my original statement was mistaken. Hm.
Ah, yes, definitely ピーシーばん, there's a dictionary entry, http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/srch/all/PC%E7%89%88/m0u/
So yeah, I guess consonant changes on suffixes are something to be careful of.
I'm guessing h-line suffixes follow similar pronunciation rules as h-line counters like 本, which makes sense seeing as counters are a kind of suffix.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FlameseeK - 2016-04-30
Still on this topic, I've just noticed another case of "not in the dictionary" in DS3 - 右武器 and 左武器. Since these are pretty straightforward and not in the dictionary, I'm assuming they're みぎ and ひだり as usual. They do have alternate readings though, such as さ and ゆう as in 左右, but I'd be surprised if they were used in the "words" I mentioned.
I guess most Japanese say screw it and follow their intuition? Or maybe what they've heard before if it ever happened. Pretty sure they wouldn't look up stuff like this in the dictionary. And if the pronunciation is supposed to be different, I don't think they'd care much anyway. But yeah, I guess the Japanese writing system is definitely something unnecessarily complicated in this regard.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - anotherjohn - 2016-04-30
FlameseeK Wrote:Question 1: レベル：総合的な能力の高さを示す値I instinctively read this as ち - pretty sure that's right as it's always read that way when referring to player stats, as in this case ('suffix' tag notwithstanding).
FlameseeK Wrote:右武器 and 左武器みぎ/ひだり seem plausible as contractions from 右手武器 and 左手武器 resp, though the on readings would be う/さ, which also sound plausible (to me) - c.f. 右腕, 左腕, 右辺, 左辺, etc.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Roketzu - 2016-04-30
For things like 右武器 and 左武器 I just imagine what would someone say in conversation when talking about these, and I'm fairly sure they'd say みぎ(て)ぶき and ひだり(て)ぶき. うぶき and さぶき just sound like made up words.
総合的な能力の高さを示す値 also feels like something that only appears in written form and 値 would be turned into ナンバー in conversation. I could be wrong though.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RawrPk - 2016-04-30
(2016-04-30, 1:36 am)FlameseeK Wrote: Are you sure you've heard はん in PC版 before? I'm so confused that I've just decided to search for youtube videos where this word is used. I'll see if I can find other videos, but in the first video I watched the person actually says ばん. I've only seen this one though, so I'll keep looking to see if I can find other videos. I was pretty much in the middle of doing this "hunt" when you replied, so I still have to read the rest of your post, but I'd like to thank you for the input in advance. These detailed posts help me a lot.
EDIT: It seems kind of tricky to find videos where people say these words, but I've found another one (and yet another one) where the person says ばん, but in this case the word is Windows版 instead. Obviously, another case of a word that isn't in the dictionary. I have no idea why ばん isn't listed as a suffix now... lol... but I supposed we can assume that ばん is used at the end of every word when it looks like a suffix, even if the dictionary doesn't list it as one?
Sorry this adds nothing to the conversation, but when I first read the suffix, it reminded me of the Korean slang term PC방(PC bang) which has a completely different meaning but similar sounding. It means a PC room/internet cafe where you pay to play PC games.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FlameseeK - 2016-04-30
(2016-04-30, 4:17 am)anotherjohn Wrote:Initially I was confused by あたい and ち. The syntax and morphosyntax of Japanese are so different and weird at times though. So I was asking myself if it made any sense to read it as a suffix in spite of the fact that I've never seen that after a verb in Japanese.FlameseeK Wrote:Question 1: レベル：総合的な能力の高さを示す値I instinctively read this as ち - pretty sure that's right as it's always read that way when referring to player stats, as in this case ('suffix' tag notwithstanding).
But I think at this point I'd rather see a native speaker say it that way after a verb to make sure. Reading it as a suffix even though you can conjugate a verb right before it makes no sense to me. That makes readings unreliable to a pretty ridiculous extent imo. By all means, 示す should definitely turn the preceding clause into a subordinate a clause, which means that 値 has to be a noun... right?
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2016-04-30
(2016-04-30, 2:14 am)FlameseeK Wrote: Still on this topic, I've just noticed another case of "not in the dictionary" in DS3 - 右武器 and 左武器. Since these are pretty straightforward and not in the dictionary, I'm assuming they're みぎ and ひだり as usual. They do have alternate readings though, such as さ and ゆう as in 左右, but I'd be surprised if they were used in the "words" I mentioned.
I guess most Japanese say screw it and follow their intuition? Or maybe what they've heard before if it ever happened. Pretty sure they wouldn't look up stuff like this in the dictionary. And if the pronunciation is supposed to be different, I don't think they'd care much anyway. But yeah, I guess the Japanese writing system is definitely something unnecessarily complicated in this regard.
This kind of thing is where the use of kanji really hurts us as foreign learners. Japanese people's years/decades of experience with the language let them figure out how to read these just by what sounds more like real Japanese to them. Although technically you can't know 100% for sure, I have a feeling that you'd get 10 out of 10 native speakers to read these the same way (my guess is みぎぶき and ひだりぶき but that's just a guess).
I think also that foreigners tend to be a lot more interested in kanji than native speakers -- I wouldn't be surprised if most native speakers, encountering 左武器 in context, wouldn't stop to wonder about this "irregular" or "new" word, they would just read it as something and move on. Things like numbers of kanji, whether something is joyo or not, whether it's on or kun yomi, etc. -- these aren't things that interest the majority of Japanese people, I think. As long as they can understand what they're reading they don't really care.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Kuroro - 2016-05-01
I'm reading a detective conan case about a guy who fell into a river during a kite-flying competition and almost drowned. One of the suspects is being questioned and this is what he says
女房がいるのに奴が俺の妹にちょっかい出したあげく…自殺に追い込みやがったからこの大会が終わったら顔貸せって…きっとバチが当たって川に落ちたんだろうよ…
There are a few things I don't quite understand. First of all did his sister actually kill herself? What does 顔貸せって mean? And バチが当たって?
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - EratiK - 2016-05-01
(2016-05-01, 9:50 am)Kuroro Wrote: I'm reading a detective conan case about a guy who fell into a river during a kite-flying competition and almost drowned. One of the suspects is being questioned and this is what he says顔貸す is a familiar way of saying "having a word". バチが当たって is "(heaven) punishment stroke", he got what he diserved, so yeah, I think his sister killed herself from harrassment.
女房がいるのに奴が俺の妹にちょっかい出したあげく…自殺に追い込みやがったからこの大会が終わったら顔貸せって…きっとバチが当たって川に落ちたんだろうよ…
There are a few things I don't quite understand. First of all did his sister actually kill herself? What does 顔貸せって mean? And バチが当たって?
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Kuroro - 2016-05-01
Thanks Eratik
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RawrPk - 2016-05-01
Hello. I'm having trouble trying to figure out this phrase.
パンダくん
「しろくまカフェ」の常連客。ちょっと面倒くさがり屋。
I understand that this is describing Panda as a regular customer at Polar Bear Cafe. I'm just not sure how to read the second sentence. I glossed the terms and I can only guess that it says "He has a rather troublesome personality." Am I on the right track? Thanks for the help
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2016-05-02
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E9%9D%A2%E5%80%92%E8%87%AD%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8A%E5%B1%8B Wrote:面倒臭がり屋
読み方：めんどうくさがりや
別表記：面倒臭がりや、面倒くさがり屋
何かにつけて面倒臭そうにする人。面倒臭がる人。
So a person who often 面倒臭がる (feels that things are めんどくさい to do), not a person who is mendokusai
edit:
Other words in this pattern are
恥ずかしがり屋 person who easily gets shy
寂しがり屋 person who often gets lonely
目立ちたがり屋 person who wants to get attention all the time
etc etc there's loads
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RawrPk - 2016-05-02
Thank you for the help! I didn't realize adj〜がり屋 was a type of grammatical term that changed it to those who fit a certain personality. I'll make a note of this in the future.
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Kuroro - 2016-05-02
I'm at a loss again
I can't understand why this guy was called "zero"僕のアダ名も「ゼロ」だったので呼ばれたのかと…
何でゼロ？確かに名前透だったよな？
透けてるって事は何もないって事…だからゼロ…子供がつけるアダ名の法則なんて…そんなモンですよ…
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2016-05-02
His name is 透 (とおる), the kanji used in 透ける (to be transparent)
透けてるって事は何もないって事…だからゼロ… Being see through means there's nothing there... so 'Zero'...
子供がつけるアダ名の法則なんて…そんなモンですよ… That's the kind of (silly) way kids decide nicknames...
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Kuroro - 2016-05-03
Thank you Ash_S!
RE: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - viharati - 2016-05-03
(2016-04-29, 11:37 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: レベル：総合的な能力の高さを示す値 : Is 値 supposed to be read as あたい here?Yes, unless it means price of something. e.g. 株が値(ね)を下げる: stock prices drop
Quote:How do you know the pronunciation of certain kanji in compounds when the word isn't in the dictionary?People guess it by leaning on analogy to existing words.
Concerning to 版, it's basically はん e.g. 第一版：だいいちはん、初版：しょはん (first edition) but the form of combination with an existing noun (often proper nouns) is a word compound that is always rendaku-ed.
Quote:基礎力 … I guess ちから is also a possibility?No, there's no word that reading of きそぢから is assigned to, so far.
力 as a suffix is basically read りょく and when it's component of buddhist term derivative, it's りき. It's parallel to 命（めい vs みょう）, 生（せい vs しょう）or so.
Quote:右武器 and 左武器When reading such gaming jargon even as みぎぶき and ひだりぶき doesn't make sense to ordinary people, morphologically less discernable reading makes it more nonsensical.