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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-11
drdunlap Wrote:Because Kanji usage is incredibly random. ESPECIALLY for things like こと.My own practice is to use kanji wherever possible, notwithstanding that I see kana used, e.g.,
Actually, the meaning of こと in that sentence is literally "things that were said." Not just "things."
Yep. There's a dictionary entry for that. (→ ４ 言葉の内容や意味。「君の言う―はわからないでもない」)
I write "友達" instead of "友だち", "子供" instead of "子ども", "下さい" instead of "ください"、"貴方" instead of "あなた".
I figure, doing this will help me remember the kanji. Plus I just like doing it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2014-11-11
It's not that non-kanji こと = "things that were said," that's just one definition for こと (whether in kanji or not).
Using kanji all the time for everything is good for remembering and it all depends on the person, really. BUT, most of the time, things like こと、ください、あなた are not written in kanji. Either way is fine, though. The average native adult will understand. However, using kanji for these kinds of words is a tad bit more rare. (Although I guess it takes a bit of exposure to understand what words are "these kinds of words.")
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - frosty_rain - 2014-11-11
Weird.
Anyway, moving on. あの、ちょっとお聞きしたいんですが、バス乗り場はどこですか
The bold part in this sentence I'm having trouble understanding. Actually, it's mostly the いんです part of it. I pretty much have the whole sentence figured out, but the ん conjugations still get me.
I have a grammar book coming to explain things to me in layman's terms, and once that egg is cracked I plan on thoroughly reviewing Tae Kim's site; then the dumb questions will stop I promise lol.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-11-11
There's a general rule that grammatical function words are written in kana rather than kanji, and this includes auxiliaries after -te form verbs. So 本を下さい, but 書いてください. 事 would be "things" where as こと would be the nominalizer. However, this rule is by no means 100% followed by native speakers. Although you do need experience to know what kanji would be rarely or never used by native speakers.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RandomQuotes - 2014-11-11
frosty_rain Wrote:Weird.お聞き - humble form of to ask
Anyway, moving on. あの、ちょっとお聞きしたいんですが、バス乗り場はどこですか
The bold part in this sentence I'm having trouble understanding. Actually, it's mostly the いんです part of it. I pretty much have the whole sentence figured out, but the ん conjugations still get me.
I have a grammar book coming to explain things to me in layman's terms, and once that egg is cracked I plan on thoroughly reviewing Tae Kim's site; then the dumb questions will stop I promise lol.
したい - want to do something
んですが - Something along the lines of "It's just that" You use it to soften requests.
So, not following the grammar exactly, it means something along the lines of like "If it's ok, I just want to ask..."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-12
yudantaiteki Wrote:There's a general rule that grammatical function words are written in kana rather than kanji, and this includes auxiliaries after -te form verbs. So 本を下さい, but 書いてください. 事 would be "things" where as こと would be the nominalizer. However, this rule is by no means 100% followed by native speakers. Although you do need experience to know what kanji would be rarely or never used by native speakers.Here's what the online dictionary says:
下さい ください 1: (Usually written using kana alone) (Honorific or respectful language) please give me;
2: (after te-form of a verb or a noun prefixed with o- or go-) please do for me
Are there really Japanese people who take care to flip between kana vs. kanji depending on how "kudasai" is used in the sentence?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RandomQuotes - 2014-11-12
A google search of "下さい ください 違い" gives you roughly 13.5 million results, and is the top suggestiosn if you type "下さい"
For reference：
”「下さい」と「ください」の使い分けはあるのでしょうか。
「クダ」の部分を漢字にするか仮名書きにするかは、意味や用法によって使い分ける必要があります。
漢字を使う場合
「飲み物をクダさい」といった実質動詞（「くれ」の尊敬・丁寧表現）の場合は、「下さい」と漢字書きにします。
仮名書きにする場合
「お飲みクダさい」といった補助動詞（何かをお願いするときや、敬意を表す尊敬・丁寧表現）の場合は、「ください」と仮名書きにします。”
This says basically the same thing that yudantaiteki said.
So, essentially, yes. Educated speakers would pay attention, especially in formal/business situations.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2014-11-12
john555 Wrote:Are there really Japanese people who take care to flip between kana vs. kanji depending on how "kudasai" is used in the sentence?Yes, and the fact that grammatical things are usually written in kana is a pretty general rule, hardly limited to ください. Now that you've heard it I imagine you'll notice it all the time.
Also, I think it's better to mimic actual kanji usage than to favor kanji use in all situations. That's the kind of thing you look back on years later and realize you were being silly.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-11-12
john555 Wrote:Are there really Japanese people who take care to flip between kana vs. kanji depending on how "kudasai" is used in the sentence?Lots. This is evident in other patterns as well:
本を置く vs. 本を買っておく
店に行く vs. 晴れていく
and such. It's not universal, though.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2014-11-12
How much people care also depends on which auxiliary verb(??補助動詞) you're talking about like...
やって置く for やっておく just looks wrong
but ～て下さい I've seen businesses and professors use fairly often despite it being "wrong".
出来る in like することができる is another one where kanji is really common (even in formal communication) despite the government prescribing kana.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Areje - 2014-11-13
1. 振り切ってやる！！
2. 甘い奴やのう！
I haven't seen these in any of the sources I use. Would the first be ''Get out of my way!'', and the second one translate to ''You brat!''?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sparky14 - 2014-11-14
hey everyone, trouble with this sentence.
いずこよりいまし、荒ぶる神とは存ぜぬも
What is いまし?
How is より used here?
what's the reading for 存ぜぬ and what does it mean? Does the も at the end do anything special?
Thanks
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2014-11-14
sparky14 Wrote:hey everyone, trouble with this sentence.Before we get to your questions, this sentence is an example of 疑似古語, like the odd "thou"s and "thee"s and "I thinketh"s you might find in an English period drama to make it sound "old".
いずこよりいまし、荒ぶる神とは存ぜぬも
Quote:What is いまし?「来る」の尊敬語
http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%84%E3%81%BE%E3%81%99
Quote:How is より used here?Same as から。
Quote:what's the reading for 存ぜぬ and what does it mean? Does the at the end do anything special?ぞんぜぬ from 存ずる.
Meaning: 「知る」の謙譲語
If you mean the ぬ at the end, it marks the negative.
何処から来られた荒々しく乱暴な神様なのかは知りませんが
↑interpretation into modern Japanese from http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1377237073
Edit:
found an interesting post by a japanese man explaining this sentence. Raises the same questions about いまし as I had like how can the 連用形 be modifying 神
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/6e9ssq
It's written in Korean but if you google translate it to Japanese it basically reads normally.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2014-11-16
This is a qoute from episode 27 of Log Horizon
A:お願いがあって 来ました。
B:分かった いいぜ。
A:え…？
B:一人の男が これはと見込んで
北の果てまで 訪ねて来たんだ。
話を聞いてから決めるのは
野暮ってもんだろ。
The bolded bit makes no sense to me. I (think I) understand all the component parts but I've no idea what's being implied by これは or why it would mean he should accept/decline requests without knowing what they are. I get the impression that's it's a quote from something but can't work out what. If it helps person A is one of the leaders of the local government and person B is the head of an independent faction.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-11-16
これは just means "This is the best course of action"; I guess he's saying that since this guy thought coming all the way to the ends of the north was the best course of action, his request must be worthwhile.
http://thesaurus.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%93%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AF%E3%81%A8%E6%80%9D%E3%81%86
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sparky14 - 2014-11-17
Someone posted this sentence on another thread on here
木の上に立っていて、学校に行っている途中で自分の子供を見ているおや。
I'm not sure who's standing on the tree... the parent or the child? I guessed: Parent(s) on a tree watching their child(ren) going to school.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RandomQuotes - 2014-11-17
sparky14 Wrote:Someone posted this sentence on another thread on hereYes, you're right. However, this phrase is just a mnemonic for remembering the kanji for おや[親].
木の上に立っていて、学校に行っている途中で自分の子供を見ているおや。
I'm not sure who's standing on the tree... the parent or the child? I guessed: Parent(s) on a tree watching their child(ren) going to school.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2014-11-17
@yudantaiteki: Thanks that makes sense now. For some reason it never occurred to me that it was actually describing person A.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-17
What is the preferred pronunciation of "一昨年" [the year before last]?
Is it "ototoshi" or "issakunen"?
Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-11-17
おととし in everyday speech, いっさくねん in a sufficiently formal setting. Same for other 昨 words that have multiple readings (昨日=きのう/さくじつ, 昨夜=ゆうべ/さくや, etc.).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-17
Vempele Wrote:おととし in everyday speech, いっさくねん in a sufficiently formal setting. Same for other 昨 words that have multiple readings (昨日=きのう/さくじつ, 昨夜=ゆうべ/さくや, etc.).Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-18
I had a quick question on the sentence below. I would have thought it should be "強い風時は..."
It seems out of order below. Is it correct? Thanks.
風の強い時はかなり寒いですが、大抵は暖かいです。
Kaze no tuyoi toki wa kanari samui desu ga, taitei wa atatakai desu.
It's fairly cold when there is a strong wind, but generally it's warm.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2014-11-18
john555 Wrote:I had a quick question on the sentence below. I would have thought it should be "強い風時は..."You were taught 「強い風時は」? That's really awkward..
It seems out of order below. Is it correct? Thanks.
風の強い時はかなり寒いですが、大抵は暖かいです。
Kaze no tuyoi toki wa kanari samui desu ga, taitei wa atatakai desu.
It's fairly cold when there is a strong wind, but generally it's warm.
「風の強い時は」 or 「風が強い時は」are normal.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - john555 - 2014-11-18
Thanks for you help. Actually now that I think about it more I would have expected:
風が強い時は, as you said.
What is the grammatical explanation for replacing "ga" with "no" in this case? The "no" couldn't be possessive.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2014-11-18
I actually just realized I don't know how to explain this very well in English. haha. BUT!
Right, it's not the possessive. It's actually doing the exact same thing as が in this case.
Within a clause modifying a noun like this, が and の can be used interchangeably (EDIT: Not "interchangeably". の can replace が... is what I wanted to say.
). However, の CAN'T be used in place of が to simply introduce a subject.For example- in the sentence you posted, 「風の強い」is a clause which is modifying 「時」so all is well and both が and の are possible. However, if the sentence were to end with 強い (not modifying anything) and all you wanted to say was "The wind is strong," you wouldn't be able to use の.
○「風が強い時」
○「風の強い時」
○「風が強い」
☓「風の強い」
Another example,
"The thing I did" vs. "I did it."
○「私がやったこと」
○「私のやったこと」
○「私がやった」
☓「私のやった」