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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-09-27
Edited my explanation multiple times while you were composing. The current version says what I meant to say ("connected by a subject" -> just mention the subject directly).
Edit: you could also read it as 子供たちの...(deep breath)普通の子供ならすぐに置き去って成長してしまう幼い純真さ, but that just feels clumsy to me.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - anotherjohn - 2014-09-27
Thanks for your feedback Vempele and Yudantaiteki.
Vempele: your 'feels clumsy' interpretation is the one I'm leaning towards, as it puts a noun phrase on both sides of と
So there were only (だけだった) two things in the classroom:
(1) the smiles of kids who are difficult elsewhere; and
(2) the childish innocence of the typical kid, who settles down (matures) soon after being left behind.
Is that the gist of it?
No matter how many times I read 純真, I tend to hesitate every time and knock down the mental house of cards constructed up to that point
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-09-27
0) It's 笑顔と純真さ with either interpretation, the clumsy part is (...子供たち)の(笑顔と(long modifier)純真さ) vs. (...子供たちの(笑顔))と((long modifier)純真さ). The difference between 純真さ being explicitly or implicitly attributed to the 子供たち (never 普通の子供).
1) Kids who find it difficult elsewhere (kids for whom 他の場所で生きるのが困難).
2) The 幼い純真さ would すぐに置き去って成長してしまう if they were 普通の子供.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-09-27
It's kind of an overwrought sentence, I think, so some of your difficulty may be from that.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - anotherjohn - 2014-09-28
Here's another card from 君にしか聞こえない that just popped up in my reviews:
きみはぼくをだましおおすことができたのにね
Just wanted to confirm whether this is 大素, with this meaning of 素 (from EDICT):
prefix:
2 (before a noun) mere; poor; —Derogatory.
This is the only place I've ever seen it if so.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-09-28
No, it must be a verb. 果す=果せる, to succeed in doing; to manage to do; to finish doing (usually auxiliary verb)
EDICT doesn't have 果す, but 大辞林 and 広辞苑 do (the definition in both is just =果せる).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - anotherjohn - 2014-09-28
Thanks for your help Vempele, much appreciated.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-09-28
Is it possible that's a mistake in kanji to kana conversion? (I'm assuming that the original sentence was not in all kana with no spaces.) 騙しおおす does get a small number of hits on google so it's possible Vempele's explanation is correct, but it's not something I've encountered before.
EDIT: Nah it's probably right. That's a new one to me.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - anotherjohn - 2014-09-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:(I'm assuming that the original sentence was not in all kana with no spaces.)Unfortunately it was - one of the hazards of reading beginner books
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fortedsx - 2014-09-28
I'm having problem understanding this sentence:
かぎはかけてあったんですか？
According to the Genki II Textbook (page 178, Lesson 21), it's suppose to simply mean "Was the door locked?".
What I don't get is what かけてあったん is suppose to mean in this context.
The jgram site says かけて is a grammar point and is suppose to mean "in the middle of; not yet finished V-ing" (http://www.jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=kakeda%3B+kakeno%3B+kakeru)
On the other hand, the dictionaries give me a bunch of definitions for it, like to run, to hang or to lack. @_@
TL;DR
Is かけて a grammar point or a word?
Thanks
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2014-09-28
"かぎをかける" is a phrase that means "to lock ~"
ドアにかぎをかける = "lock the door"
かける is certainly a versatile verb.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - viharati - 2014-09-28
Quote:きみはぼくをだましおおすことができたのにねIt looks a typo of だましとおす（騙し通す）.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RandomQuotes - 2014-09-28
○○○してある is a resultant state. So combine that with what drdunlap said and you'll have "the door is locked"
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2014-09-28
viharati Wrote:It has to be something like that. The previously mentioned 果（おお）す is a classical Japanese verb that is おおせる in modern Japanese.Quote:きみはぼくをだましおおすことができたのにねIt looks a typo of だましとおす（騙し通す）.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2014-09-28
RandomQuotes Wrote:○○○してある is a resultant state. So combine that with what drdunlap said and you'll have "the door is locked"Yes, ～てある is similar to ～ている which the OP may be more familiar with. This is a bit of a nitpick, but the original sentence was かぎはかけてあったんですか ... 'Was the door locked?' not 'Is the door locked?' I've certainly forgotten about the original tense many times when getting lost in the details of decomposing a sentence that I'm having trouble with... but losing track of the tense can really mess up the meaning you worked so hard to get!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Inny Jan - 2014-09-28
drdunlap Wrote:かける is certainly a versatile verb.It certainly is:
http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/かける
掛ける
(1) to hang (e.g. picture); to hoist (e.g. sail); to raise (e.g. flag)
(2) to sit
(3) to take (time, money); to expend (money, time, etc.)
(4) to make (a call)
(5) to multiply
(6) to secure (e.g. lock)
(7) to put on (glasses, etc.)
(8) to cover
(9) to burden someone
(10) to apply (insurance)
(11) to turn on (an engine, etc.); to set (a dial, an alarm clock, etc.)
(12) to put an effect (spell, anaesthetic, etc.) on
(13) to hold an emotion for (pity, hope, etc.)
(14) (also 繋ける) to bind
(15) to pour (or sprinkle, spray, etc.) onto
(16) to argue (in court); to deliberate (in a meeting); to present (e.g. idea to a conference, etc.)
(17) to increase further
(18) to catch (in a trap, etc.)
(19) to set atop
(20) to erect (a makeshift building)
(21) to hold (a play, festival, etc.)
(22) to wager; to bet; to risk; to stake; to gamble
(23) (after -masu stem of verb) to be partway doing ...; to begin (but not complete) ...; to be about to ...
(24) (after -masu stem of verb) indicates (verb) is being directed to (someone)
架ける
(sometimes written 掛ける) to suspend between two points; to build (a bridge, etc.); to put up on something (e.g. legs up on table)
欠ける
(1) to be chipped; to be damaged; to be broken
(2) to be lacking; to be missing
(3) to be insufficient; to be short; to be deficient; to be negligent toward
(4) (also 虧ける) (of the moon) to wane; to go into eclipse
翔る
(1) (usu. 翔る. 翔ける (v1) is unorthodox.) to soar; to fly
(2) (usu. 駆ける) to run; to dash
賭ける
to wager; to bet; to risk; to stake; to gamble
駆ける
(1) to run (race, esp. horse); to dash
(2) to gallop (one's horse); to canter
(3) to advance (against one's enemy)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - viharati - 2014-09-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:So, it's what it is!viharati Wrote:It has to be something like that. The previously mentioned 果（おお）す is a classical Japanese verb that is おおせる in modern Japanese.Quote:きみはぼくをだましおおすことができたのにねIt looks a typo of だましとおす（騙し通す）.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-09-29
That was my first thought, until 果す turned out to have the same meaning (and I found the exact sentence on Google so I knew anotherjohn hadn't made a typo). But I missed that the dictionaries said it was 下二.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2014-10-02
それでは「カルテノー戦没者追悼式典」のあと、
我々に声をかけてもらえますかな？
What I can't grasp here is the usage of に. If に in morau sentences is supposed to indicate the agent of the sentence, wouldn't that mean that "wareware" is the one supposed to call out to the person the speaker is talking to?
I feel like the listener should be the one calling out to the "wareware" once the memorial service is over, since they aren't going to attend the service.... Now I'm just confused.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2014-10-02
That に isn't actually the target for もらう. It's the target for 声をかける.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2014-10-02
It's a question, so the person who would be doing the action defaults to the listener (modulo context) and it'd sound odd to specify it explicitly.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vostranoid - 2014-10-02
*noob question incoming! warning!
now I feel bad asking this because I feel like I should understand the sentence but it is somehow confusing me.
もっともっと、いい成績をとって、丈夫になって、悲しい思いをさせないようにするんだ。
させないようにするんだ--> is it simply "not let / make sure / んだ!" ?
I just started reading stuff and my grammar if still very "green" hence I get easily confused XD
thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - RandomQuotes - 2014-10-02
Vostranoid Wrote:*noob question incoming! warning!○○○ようにする means bassically to try to do something, so this would mean something along the lines of "try not to be made to"
now I feel bad asking this because I feel like I should understand the sentence but it is somehow confusing me.
もっともっと、いい成績をとって、丈夫になって、悲しい思いをさせないようにするんだ。
させないようにするんだ--> is it simply "not let / make sure / んだ!" ?
I just started reading stuff and my grammar if still very "green" hence I get easily confused XD
thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vostranoid - 2014-10-02
thanks for the reply!
mmh so if you had to write a translation of "悲しい思いをさせないようにするんだ" how would you word it?
ありがとう!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2014-10-02
"I won't make him/her/them sad."
悲しい思いをさせる = make someone feel sad
～ようにする = shows what you're gonna do.