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+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-11-27
I would say there's two points of concern:
1. ね is something you put at the end of things you expect agreement on, so you need to be very careful using it in cases like this. Since this person has no idea how hard you're studying, it's not really appropriate to use it there. It sounds very assertive in cases like this because you're essentially wanting him to agree with you despite not having any basis to decide whether he agrees or not.
2. たい forms are not used in Japanese to request things. 入らせていただけないでしょうか or 入らせていただけますか is what I would suggest instead.
Now, I don't know if either of these is why the person didn't respond; I would expect not.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2013-11-27
Thanks for the input! I did have a hard time making up the request so instead of "can I join" phrase I went with "I want to join". Does that not work in Japanese like I would expect it to work in English?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-11-27
It sounds odd there. As I said, -tai forms are not used in Japanese to ask for things or make requests, they just state your desire. I imagine he probably understood what you were getting at, but it's not a natural way to make a request.
"Can I join" wouldn't be a request either if literally translated (入れますか？), it would be a question about whether it is possible for you to join or not. Once again, I assume he would probably know what you were intending to say but it's not the normal way to request something.
(I don't know what an FC is and I'm not sure how a Japanese person would approach this request because I don't know the details, but I'm sure they would not use a -tai form without any additional followup.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2013-11-27
Alright, thanks for the advice.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - viharati - 2013-11-27
Betelgeuzah Wrote:こんばんは！私はフィンランド人で、そしてFCを探しているのです。日本語はまだ下手ですが熱心で勉強していますね。これがよければXXXさんのFCに入りたいです。どうぞよろしく１．そしてFCを探しているのです should be FCを探しています (There seem no preceding contexts present that take FCを探しているのです as a background info)
２．熱心で → 熱心に
３．ね as in 勉強してますね seems unnatural unless the opponent is asking if you're eager at studing Japanese.
4. I'm not sure what これ indicates in これがよければXXXさんのFCに入りたいです. Simply, もし よかったら (= If you're pleased) XXXさんのFCに入りたいです would be a natural expression.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2013-11-28
Excellent advice all around, thanks viharati. "これ" was my attempt at linking the things said in the previous sentence to the next one, (eg. "if this is alright with you, ..." which also doesn't seem to work here? I'm getting a lot of good expressions that I hadn't thought about, thanks to you both!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Xanpakuto - 2013-11-28
What's the difference between 頃 and ぐらい？ Also is ぐらい and くらい the same?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2013-11-28
頃 refers to a time (e.g. "around 10 o'clock", "when I was a child"), くらい/ぐらい refers to an amount of anything (around 10 hours/kilograms/...) .
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - egoplant - 2013-11-28
What is the 「しと」 part of 「いとしいしと」? It is the translation of "my precious" from Lord Of The Rings.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2013-11-28
いとしい人, perhaps to reflect the extra s in "my preciouss".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Xanpakuto - 2013-12-06
道が込んでいると時間がかかる
Whenever the streets are crowded, it takes longer to get there.
What's the がかかる after 時間?
Also
私はいつも音楽を聞きながら日本語を勉強します
I always study Japanese while listening to music.
Wouldn't this sentence be I always listen to music while studying Japanese because of the いつも placement?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-12-06
Xanpakuto Wrote:道が込んでいると時間がかかるかかる is a verb with lots of meanings; 時間がかかる is just a phrase meaning "to take time".
Whenever the streets are crowded, it takes longer to get there.
What's the がかかる after 時間?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ryanjmack - 2013-12-06
Xanpakuto Wrote:私はいつも音楽を聞きながら日本語を勉強します~ながら is attached to the stem of the first verb to show concurrent actions.
I always study Japanese while listening to music.
Wouldn't this sentence be I always listen to music while studying Japanese because of the いつも placement?
私はいつも音楽を聞きながら日本語を勉強します
"I always listen to music while".
私はいつも音楽を聞きながら日本語を勉強します
"study Japanese".
So yes, the second translation is closer than the first.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-12-06
In Japanese, XながらY means that Y is the primary action. The placement of いつも follows from that. Without intonation it's hard to tell which English translation is closer; I would agree that the second translation is probably better but the with the right vocal intonation the first one could mean the same thing.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kaizer - 2013-12-06
Just a quick question, can anyone explain how the adverbial form of 無い, 無く works?
Seems to convey a sense of "without", but I'm 100% sure on that. Usually when you change an i adjective into it's く form, it's the equivalent in to the English "~er" "~ly".
But I'm not sure how you could apply that same rule for something that effectively means "does not exist" or "there is no".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-12-06
Can you give an example of a specific use you're wondering about? ない has some grammatical functions as well as its normal meaning so it depends on how it's being used.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kaizer - 2013-12-06
An example would be, (seeing as I just heard this like 20 minutes ago) something like 間違いなく, which obviously comes from 間違いない. I'm not quite sure on how those two are different to be honest.
sorry for the lame example, I can't really think of anything else off the top of my head.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ashman63 - 2013-12-06
kaizer Wrote:An example would be, (seeing as I just heard this like 20 minutes ago) something like 間違いなく, which obviously comes from 間違いない. I'm not quite sure on how those two are different to be honest.間違いない means 'there's no mistake about it' (I'm certain/ I have no doubt)
間違いなく means 'without a doubt'/unmistakeably/etc
So as you noticed when you said く gives a '-ly' meaning, in this case too the く turns it into an adverb/adverbial/adjunct.
While 間違いない would stand alone as a statement of certainty, 間違いなく would be modifying a main verb...eg: 間違いなくうそだ That's unmistakeably a lie (the main verb is copula 'da' being modified by the adverbial 'machigainaku')
If you look both up on ALC:
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E9%96%93%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E9%96%93%E9%81%95%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F&ref=sa
you can see how the 'nai' form usually occurs at the end of the sentence as the main verb of the sentence; while the 'naku' form has been adverbialised to modifie the main verb (and thus tends to occur earlier in the sentence)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kaizer - 2013-12-06
Thanks a lot!
If you don't mind I have one more question. I've also seen なく in contexts like 理由もなく泣く. Is it performing the same function here?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-12-06
kaizer Wrote:Thanks a lot!Yes, that's an adverbial negative, something like 'reasonlessly crying' (although that's garbage English just to demonstrate a literal parallel grammar; of course we use 'crying for no reason' or the like for a normal translation.)
If you don't mind I have one more question. I've also seen なく in contexts like 理由もなく泣く. Is it performing the same function here?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kaizer - 2013-12-07
Got it. thanks for your help!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Bokusenou - 2013-12-08
What does 待ちにし mean in the verse 久しく待ちにし 主は来ませり? It's in the Japanese version of "Joy to the World" ( AKA もろびとこぞりて) which has very old style Japanese in it. I'm guessing it means something like 待ち望む from the context, but would love to know if that's correct.
Thanks in advance!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-12-09
It's a little hard to say but probably what they were going for was just classical past tense markers.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Bokusenou - 2013-12-09
yudantaiteki Wrote:It's a little hard to say but probably what they were going for was just classical past tense markers.Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - howtwosavealif3 - 2013-12-09
i had no idea so i tried asking on chiebukuro... her's a random japanese perosn's perspectiv eeon that.
待ち（四段活用"待つ"の連用形）
＋
に（完了の助動詞"ぬ”の連用形）
＋
し（過去回想の助動詞"き”の連体形）
ではないかな。「もろびとこぞりて」ですよね。
「辛さに耐えていたら、待ちに待ったメシヤがとうとういらした」
苦難が終わるのだ、という喜びを表して、過去と完了を重ねたのでは？
and another one
「待ちにし」は「待っていた」ということです。過去完了を表します。つまり、「久しく待ちにし 主は来ませり」は、長い間待ち望んでいた主がついにやって来られました、という意味になります。
「待ちにし」の「に」は完了の助動詞「ぬ」の連用形、「し」は過去の助動詞「き」の連体形です。
『もろびとこぞりて』の原型となった曲の歌詞では、おそらく
Saviour promised long
の部分でしょう。直訳すると「長い間(やって来ると)約束されていた主」ですが、翻訳された時代背景及び歌詞という制約のもと、より簡潔な表現である「久しく待ちにし」という翻訳になったと思われます。結果として、讃美歌にふさわしくとても格調の高い歌詞となりました。
※ 「待ちにし」の「し」は、現代では「ありし日」「若かりし日」など慣用的な表現で用いられるのみとなっています。