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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2013-10-15

It's like のに only with a flavor of disdain. And slightly more limited in usage.. くせに can only be used when the subject of the first half and last half of the sentence are the same. のに can be used even if they are different.

Example:
「のに」→「 一生懸命勉強したのに、誰も褒めてくれない」
「くせに」→「(あいつは)弱いくせに(あいつは)強がりを言う」

I can't really explain it any better. Mainly because that's the explanation and attempting to do it more justice in English will only confuse you later. Probably. Anyway here's the Japanese explanation: (but don't worry, you'll get used to it).

From 大辞林：
①文中にあって、接続助詞的に用いられる場合。非難したり攻めなじったりする気持ちを込めて、逆接条件を表す。・・・にもかかわらず。・・・のに。「大した金もない癖に、大きなことを言うな」「弱いくせに、空威張りするな」「男のくせに、からきしいくじがないんだから」
②文末にあって、終助詞的に用いられる場合。非難・くやしさなどの気持ちを込めて、「・・・であるのに」の意を表す。「なにさ、さっきは泣いてたくせに」「おだまりなさい。子供のくせに」

〔「くせに」は、それによって結ばれる前文と後文とが同一の主語の場合に限られる。それに対して、「のに」は、前文と後文とが異なった主語の場合にも用いられる。こういう点で、「くせに」の方が「のに」よりも用法が限られる。意味の上でも、「くせに」は、「のに」よりも避難する気持ちが強い〕

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - uisukii - 2013-10-15

apirx Wrote:Can someone explain to me (or link to an explanation of) the different uses of くせに? It's one of the common words i still wonder about when i hear it. Thanks
Wall of text incoming... (ごめんね）

くせに
A conjunction which expresses the speaker's contempt, anger, or disagreement about s.o.'s actions, behavor, or state

Example:
山田さんは日本人のくせにあまり漢字を知らない。|
(やまださんはにほんじんのくせにあまりかんじをしらない。)

Although Mr. Yamada is Japanese, he doesn't know many kanji.

Related grammatical concepts
にもかかわらず；のに

Notes:
くせに is used only when the main clause and the subordinate clause share the same subject. くせに is not used when the subject is the first person. In conversation, main clauses often drop.

Further examples of usage:

彼は大学のくせに漫画ばかり読んでいる。
(かれはだいがくのくせにまんがばかりよんでいる。)
Although he is a college student, all he does is read comics.

良子はまだ学生のくせに高いマンションに住んでいる。
(よしこはまだがくせいのくせにたかいマンションにすんでいる。)
Although Yoshiko is still a student, she lives in an expensive condominium.

隆は下手なくせに私とテニスをしたがる。
(たかしはへたなくせにわたしとテニスをしたがる。)
Takashi is a bad (tennis) player, and yet he wants to play with me.

怖いくせに無理するなよ。
(こわいくせにむりするなよ。)
You are afraid. Don't pretend to be strong.

孝男はお金もないくせに外車を欲しがっている。
(たかおはおかねもないくせにがいしゃをほしがっている。)
Takao doesn't have money, and yet he wants a foreign car.

吉田は前は私を見ても挨拶もしなかったくせに、私が部長になった途端に旧愛想が良くなった。
(よしだはまえはわたしをみてもあいさつもしなかったくせに、わたしがぶちょうになったとたんにきゅうあいそがよくなった。)
Before (the time I became a division chief), Yoshida never greeted me when he saw me, but he suddenly became friendly when I became a division chief.

昨日まで見習いだったくせに大きな口を聞くな。
(きのうまでみならいだったくせにおおきなくちをきくな。)
Don't talk big! You were only a trainee until yesterday!

This is from A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar. Of which you cannot find further information from by clicking here, if interested. Sorry.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zgarbas - 2013-10-15

does anyone know how to say "insertion type ultrasonic flow meter" in japanese and maybe has a link to an online dictionary where i can find such terms?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2013-10-15

Zgarbas Wrote:does anyone know how to say "insertion type ultrasonic flow meter" in japanese and maybe has a link to an online dictionary where i can find such terms?
挿入式超音波流量計, probably.
and no. (´・ω・｀)

Although I've heard of science-y inserts for 電子辞書 and the like, I don't own a 電子辞書 or the sciencey inserts to go with it so I cannot be of further assistance. Sad

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - howtwosavealif3 - 2013-10-15

https://www.google.com/search?q=ultrasonic+flow+meter+挿入は&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Here

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2013-10-15

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:https://www.google.com/search?q=ultrasonic+flow+meter+挿入は&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Here
...
..?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - patriconia - 2013-10-15

Well, ultrasonic flow meter does seem to be 超音波流量計 according to the 機械工学英和和英辞典

http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/ultrasonic+flow+meter

I get a few hits for 挿入型超音波流量計 on google

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Xanpakuto - 2013-10-15

Hi, I need a little help on this sentence.

お湯ゆを入いれるだけですぐ食たべることができる
Hot water is added, only then right away you can eat it.




My translation is a little weird. I don't know how the だけ and what that ゆ is after お湯.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2013-10-15

Xanpakuto Wrote:Hi, I need a little help on this sentence.

お湯ゆを入いれるだけですぐ食たべることができる
Hot water is added, only then right away you can eat it.




My translation is a little weird. I don't know how the だけ and what that ゆ is after お湯.
For whatever reason, all the kanji in this sentence have their readings placed after the kanji. Not in parenthesis or.. anything.

お湯を入れるだけですぐ食べることができる。
"Just add hot water and it's ready to eat."

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-10-15

Don't get into the habit of translating active verbs as passive when the subject isn't stated. Because this is Xを入れる, an active verb, translating it as "Hot water is added" distorts the meaning; if you don't know the subject from context, assume it's "I", in this case it's "you" because it's giving you instructions on how to make the ramen or whatever.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Xanpakuto - 2013-10-15

drdunlap Wrote:
Xanpakuto Wrote:Hi, I need a little help on this sentence.

お湯ゆを入いれるだけですぐ食たべることができる
Hot water is added, only then right away you can eat it.




My translation is a little weird. I don't know how the だけ and what that ゆ is after お湯.
For whatever reason, all the kanji in this sentence have their readings placed after the kanji. Not in parenthesis or.. anything.

お湯を入れるだけですぐ食べることができる。
"Just add hot water and it's ready to eat."
Oh my goodness I didn't even realize the extras for the other two kanji in the sentence, kind of just skimmed through it. Of course I see the weird ゆ of the kanji I don't knowz

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zgarbas - 2013-10-15

patriconia Wrote:Well, ultrasonic flow meter does seem to be 超音波流量計 according to the 機械工学英和和英辞典

http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/ultrasonic+flow+meter

I get a few hits for 挿入型超音波流量計 on google
That dictionary is Perfect! Thank you so much, you're a lifesaver Big Grin .

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2013-10-16

Thanks for the explanations on くせに! Thinking about it as similar to のに has helped a lot.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - damicore - 2013-10-20

I'm having big difficulties understanding the meaning of this song title:
如何に強大な精神や力といえども知性なくしては『無』に等しい。
What i've come down to is that it means something along the lines of:
"Even if you say it's a powerful spirit or energy, without intelligence it's similar to naught"
It looks really bad.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ryanjmack - 2013-10-20

このバンドはとても人気があるよ。 - the sentence found in core


このバンドはとても人気ですよ。 - can you use です　in place of ある in this situation?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-10-20

damicore Wrote:I'm having big difficulties understanding the meaning of this song title:
如何に強大な精神や力といえども知性なくしては『無』に等しい。
What i've come down to is that it means something along the lines of:
"Even if you say it's a powerful spirit or energy, without intelligence it's similar to naught"
It looks really bad.
「~といえども」　doesn't meant 'Even if you say ~' it means 'Even though ~' ; it's kind of a fixed expression but the いえ is suggestive of a potential form so it might help to think of it as literally being 'even if ~ could be said'. (I don't promise that that's the real derivation of the expression though.)

等しい usually means 'equal' or 'equivalent'. I wouldn't translate it as 'similar' without good reason to think its meaning has been softened in a given sentence.

Other than those small changes, you seem to understand it well enough.

Of course, all of these attributes are understood to belong to the same person, even though no such subject is explicitly stated. You say it's a song title, but it reads like a ことわざ. If it is, it's not one I've heard before, it just sounds like one.

ryanjmack Wrote:このバンドはとても人気があるよ。 - the sentence found in core


このバンドはとても人気ですよ。 - can you use です　in place of ある in this situation?
Both sentences are possible, but they differ in tone. Most noticeably, you just changed a plain sentence into a polite one, but there's also a tone difference between 人気があるよ and 人気だよ.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-10-20

SomeCallMeChris Wrote:
damicore Wrote:I'm having big difficulties understanding the meaning of this song title:
如何に強大な精神や力といえども知性なくしては『無』に等しい。
What i've come down to is that it means something along the lines of:
"Even if you say it's a powerful spirit or energy, without intelligence it's similar to naught"
It looks really bad.
「~といえども」　doesn't meant 'Even if you say ~' it means 'Even though ~' ; it's kind of a fixed expression but the いえ is suggestive of a potential form so it might help to think of it as literally being 'even if ~ could be said'. (I don't promise that that's the real derivation of the expression though.)
It's not. It comes from the classical 已然形 conjugation of いう which is いえ　（いへ）, plus the concessive ど ("but"), plus emphatic も. So there's no potential in there at all. It works as a unit with いかに to literally mean something like "No matter how much you say X"

One other note, なくして is not the same as なくて or ないで; I would read it as literally "doing [something] without intelligence."

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ryanjmack - 2013-10-22

日本に来て半年になります。

I kind of don't understand the になります part. Why wouldn't it be past tense? And how would you interpret the sentence? Thanks!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-10-22

Because it's not in the past. It's been six months since you came to Japan, and you're still there. Japanese tends to be easier to interpret as perfective (finished things) and imperfective (unfinished things) rather than past/present/future tense. This may seem odd with a literal translation from English, but even in English note that we would say "I have been...", not past tense "I was".

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure whey they use なります here instead of なっています; that's beyond my ability to explain other than "that's the way it is".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2013-10-22

Edit: ninja'd.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Xanpakuto - 2013-10-25

I feel like I just hit in the face when I ran into this.

This article is talking about new technology becoming more advanced.

能率がが高くなって、スピードもとても速くなっています。
The computers has increased in performance, its speed has also become faster.

My translation is right I think, but it brought me to think of how negative adjectives are formed. As I was reading it I accidentally thought the 高い and 速い were in their negative forms, until I saw なっています I knew something is up. I guess I didn't read into adjectives so much. How do you put multiple negative adjectives in one statement?

For example. How would this be negative, or if you all can make a better example, even better.

彼女は面白くて、背が高くて、親切ででしょう

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Vempele - 2013-10-25

ない is just like any other い-adjective. い->くない->くなくて instead of い->く->くて.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Odin89 - 2013-10-25

彼女は面白くなくて、背もあまり高くなくて、親切ですらない
Just an example.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - ryanjmack - 2013-10-25

yudantaiteki Wrote:Because it's not in the past. It's been six months since you came to Japan, and you're still there. Japanese tends to be easier to interpret as perfective (finished things) and imperfective (unfinished things) rather than past/present/future tense. This may seem odd with a literal translation from English, but even in English note that we would say "I have been...", not past tense "I was".

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure whey they use なります here instead of なっています; that's beyond my ability to explain other than "that's the way it is".
I wanted to thank you for helping me out. It took a couple days of thinking, but I kind of understand it now. I still do wonder why なっています isn't used, but like you said there are exceptions. I appreciate your insight though

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-10-25

Vempele Wrote:ない is just like any other い-adjective. い->くない->くなくて instead of い->く->くて.
Right -- what's going on here is that you have the -ku form of the adjective, which can connect to other predicates. So you have something like 高くなる (become expensive), 面白くする (make interesting), or 速く食べる (eat quickly). In older Japanese there were specific negative conjugations of everything, but in modern Japanese they are simply formed with the adjective ない. So "not expensive" is 高くない, which from a purely grammatical standpoint, is just like 高くなる -- the -ku form of the adjective plus a predicate.

This is true of verbs as well; older Japanese had negative conjugations which are still preserved in a few cases today, but most of the time you just add ない on to a form of the verb, and the ない conjugates just like any other adjective. It seems a little strange grammatically, but it's simpler to work with than the older language.