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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Savii - 2013-05-07
Thanks. Actually, both the じる and ずる versions are listed and I knew about those verbs, but I didn't know about the ぜられた conjugation. Seems like it's about time for me to read up on older grammar forms, they show up in modern Japanese more often than I'd expected.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-07
Yep. I think that anyone at the advanced level of Japanese should study some basic classical Japanese just because the forms show up so often in modern.
(The reason I semi-accidentally put 投ず is because the ぜられた conjugation is based on the classical ず rather than the modern ずる.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-07
As such, to get back to the why is it that way, the original negative base (未然形) for these verbs. All it is is a voiced form of す（る）. Then, all you do, like you do now is add -られる.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Animosophy - 2013-05-14
見たければ見ないさ。
The translation is "If you want to see it, see it.", but why is 見る conjugated to the negative? Unless the -さ suffix does something magical here (or...)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-14
That's because it should have been 見なさい.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Animosophy - 2013-05-14
Ah, haha, thanks. Can't be too careful at my level Dx
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-14
見ないさ Would be a colloquial/Tokyo speech way of saying won't/don't see. So, it doesn't really match with the ば Conditional.
～なさい Creates a polite command from someone that is above you.
ページをめくりなさい。 Turn the page.
178ページを読みなさい。 Read page 178.
きれい字で名前を書きなさい。 Write your name with good handwriting.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-05-15
Could some one explain the difference between 順序・順番? I read a few explanations in Japanese on the internet, but it just does not help. In German it's just all the same T-T
Is the difference between 預ける・任せる that the latter has a strong meaning of irresponsibility?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-15
順序: An arrangement according to a particular rule or procedure in how things are done.
順番: You're going in an arrangement (順序), but there is alternation.
I would say your understanding of the difference between 預ける & 任せる is sufficient.
日本では子供を預けるシステムもあまりありません。
俺に任せてくれ！
Just thinking of sentences on the top of my head.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-05-15
@imabi: Thanks! Is there any English ressource out there for 使い分け辞典? I borrowed one from the library of Berlin when living in Berlin and it was REALLY helpful, but is out of print already
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-15
Sorry, the only ones I know of are completely in Japanese, but the Japanese google dictionary has a synonyms section. You know enough Japanese to go through those entries.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - dswift137 - 2013-05-15
This is from the first volume of Gyo, by Junji Ito.
TV news is reporting on walking fish invading Okinawa.
「歩く魚」達の正体については、捕獲された中型、小型のものに加え[...]
I was thinking that this meant that the walking fish had captured small and medium sized things and put them under their body.
The English translated version says that small and medium sized walking fish have been captured.
The parts that are confusing me are "正体については" which I thought meant "under their actual bodies" and "ものに加え" which I thought meant "things (that were) added to".
Can someone explain this to me better?
As I look back with the translation in mind, is this a better explanation:
"については" is just like "as for, concerning" and 歩く魚」達の正体については、捕獲された is a complete sentence saying that (some) of the walking fish have been captured. The rest is saying "In addition to the small and medium sized"?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-15
About the true shape of the walking fish, in addition to the medium and small ones captured...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-15
As imabi indicates, this is an incomplete sentence, and it's not really telling you the things have been captured (that's already been covered earlier, maybe off-screen).
Quote:As I look back with the translation in mind, is this a better explanation:捕獲された modifies 中型、小型のもの. "The small and medium-sized ones that were captured."
"については" is just like "as for, concerning" and 歩く魚」達の正体については、捕獲された is a complete sentence saying that (some) of the walking fish have been captured. The rest is saying "In addition to the small and medium sized"?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Babyrat - 2013-05-24
I have been using online dictionary's for my sentences the last two days (trying something new), I have mainly been using denshi jisho and tangorin, both seem to use the same resources for example sentences.
I was looking up sentences for 信用 and the first one that popped up was 彼を信用するな。 with the translation of "Don't trust him" is it me or is that the complete opposite of what the sentence is actually saying? How trustworthy are these sentences?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - EratiK - 2013-05-24
するな is an informal negative imperative form of suru, see DOBJG p 266. I guess it's hard to tell without context.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Babyrat - 2013-05-24
Well thats just plain annoying, I thought it was for emphasis... Thanks for the embarrassing correction
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Savii - 2013-05-24
驚く母に、ともかく、今日のできごとを、話すだけは話した。
So, the subject informed his mother of the things that happened today. But I suppose the last part is trying to say something more than just that, otherwise it would've been just been 話した, right? I can't find anything about this construction though, can someone enlighten me?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2013-05-24
話すだけは話した。
Anyway, I talked only what I talked of today's events to my mother's surprise.
This is somewhat a free translation to get the true meaning out of it, and there are some clear differences in the two grammars from this sentence alone, but there isn't much you've missed except not understanding that the particle だけ can go after verbs too. The particle comes from a noun after all.
Here's my lesson on the topic: http://www.imabi.net/l43theparticledake.htm
It may or may not be of any help to you.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Savii - 2013-05-25
Hmm, I'm afraid I don't quite understand yet. I'm familiar with だけ and how it can be used with verbs, but I don't get what is being limited here, or why the verb is being used twice. I'm not sure how to interpret "I talked only what I talked of" either. I'm probably just missing something simple... お願いします！
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - EratiK - 2013-05-25
I'm understanding it like this:
Anyway as I spoke with my mother I only mentioned the day's events, leaving her astonished.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-25
Savii Wrote:Hmm, I'm afraid I don't quite understand yet. I'm familiar with だけ and how it can be used with verbs, but I don't get what is being limited here, or why the verb is being used twice. I'm not sure how to interpret "I talked only what I talked of" either. I'm probably just missing something simple... お願いします！Somewhere in this thread there's a discussion of だけ that I should probably find so I can link.
In short, the main meaning of だけ is "degree" or "extent". The wa-ee on goo.ne.jp has this:
〔程度〕
彼はかせいだだけ使う
He spends as much as he earns.
言うだけのことは言ったほうがよい
It is better to 「say what you have to say [speak your piece].
だけ does not mean "only" here, it means "to the limit of" or "as much as..." So it basically means "I told her everything I could." It's similar to やれることだけやってみる which means "I will try to do as much as I can", not "I will only do what I can do." They're similar in meaning but the "only" has a negative connotation that you need しか in Japanese to express.
Sometimes だけ means "only", but not always.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - EratiK - 2013-05-25
I'm trying to understand here.
You say it means "I told her everything I could" even with 話すだけ?
Do you mean "everything I had to"?
Note it's not 話せるだけ.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-05-25
I think the second example above is good:
言うだけのことは言ったほうがよい
It is better to 「say what you have to say [speak your piece].
Maybe "could" was the wrong translation because that does fit better with 話せる; this seems like something of an idiom and I'm not sure I'm understanding it completely. I'm 95% certain that this is not supposed to be read as a negative limit "only".
I think maybe "I told her what I had to say" might be better? ("had" in the sense of possession, not requirement)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - EratiK - 2013-05-25
Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.