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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-04-18
Thanks for the quick reply dizmox!
It's just a feeling, but I feel せめて is being used much more emotionally.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Headamon - 2013-04-18
Tori-kun Wrote:Thanks for the quick reply dizmox!Kind of but not really. For example if you are asking for a favor, you would use せめて because it softens the sentence, like せめて２個位くれない？ーーcan you give me at least 2 pieces of it?
It's just a feeling, but I feel せめて is being used much more emotionally.
On the other hand if you use 少なくとも in the above example it would make the sentence more of a demand than asking a favor
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-04-18
I feel like せめて２個位くれない？is 'Couldn't you spare me a mere two pieces of it?' with an implication of 'I'm not asking for any more than that'. I think this very usage is why edict lists it (confusingly) as 'at least, at most'. That is, the literal meaning here is more like 'at most'.
'少なくとも２個位くれない？' on the other hand, I feel is literally 'at least'.
'Won't you give me at least two pieces?' with an implication of 'And more would be better.'
Maybe 'Give me no less than two pieces, please.' is a better translation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - howtwosavealif3 - 2013-04-18
Ya
１ 不満足ながら、これだけは実現させたいという最低限の願望を表す
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pauro02 - 2013-04-19
ハハハ！よしゃ！皆、元気？：）
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kudokupo - 2013-04-19
彼は永久に帰らぬ人となったのよ。
Can anyone explain this sentence from core 6000? "He passed away." ...such a helpful translation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Stian - 2013-04-19
帰らぬ = 帰らない
Apart from that, the sentence should be obvious.
"He has become someone who will be gone [/not come back] for an eternity" is my awkward translation of that.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2013-04-20
I am a bit confused about some more words with multiple readings.
止まる and 解く for example. I just came across エンジンが止まった. I initially read とまった, but my dictionary says とどまった or やまった are also possible. Same with 解く as とく or ほどく. Are there differences in usage? Also 描く as かく or えがく. I've only ever heard えがく in song lyrics, is it like a poetic version of かく?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-04-20
Typically you just have to know through context, or hope they give you furigana. やまった is not a possibility; 止 can be read as やむ in 雨が止む but there's no such word as やまる. In this case you know it's とまった because an engine stopping is とまる not とどまる.
ほどく is more limited in use than とく.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pauro02 - 2013-04-20
よし！漢字を見つけった！
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-04-20
yudantaiteki Wrote:Typically you just have to know through context, or hope they give you furigana. やまった is not a possibility; 止 can be read as やむ in 雨が止む but there's no such word as やまる. In this case you know it's とまった because an engine stopping is とまる not とどまる.There is such a word as やまる, listed by EDICT ((v5r,vi,col) to cease; to stop; to be over 止まる[やまる] やまる 止まる) and 日本国語大辞典 ,
ほどく is more limited in use than とく.
やま・る【止】-日本国語大辞典
〔自ラ五（四）〕続いて来た物事が途絶える状態になる。＊悲しき配分〔１９２２〕〈鷹野つぎ〉「けど、明日で馬鹿が止（ヤ）まらないと、するとつまんないなあ」＊橇〔１９２７〕〈黒島伝治〉六「でも戦争をやっとる ...
That's a bit of a nitpick though; it's essentially not a candidate. As a general rule, if I don't find a word in a 中 dictionary, I don't worry about it until I have to, especially when it comes to alternate readings.
When multiple readings are common, I put typical examples from a 中 J-E dictionary into Anki, (謎を解く -> とく、小包を解く-> ほどく ; しゃべりを止める -> やめる, 車を止める->とめる)
Sometimes meanings overlap - you -can- とく anywhere you can ほどく, at least by dictionary definition. Just have to pay attention to what you hear or read in kana and try to get a sense of naturalness.
I think えがく is used sometimes to sound more artistic for paintings and portraits, rarely for drawing, and almost always is preferred to かく for metaphors (hence appearing in song lyrics a lot).
This entry for かく only shows a literal use, anyway http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&p=%E3%81%8B%E3%81%8F&dtype=3&dname=2na&stype=0&pagenum=1&index=00711800
while えがく shows a lot of other uses http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF-8&p=%E3%81%88%E3%81%8C%E3%81%8F&dtype=3&dname=2na&stype=0&pagenum=1&index=00427900
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2013-04-21
Pretty good replies, thank you! Yahoo seems like a good resource to figure out words with multiple readings, are there more sources for such example sentences? I know about wwwjic but the example sentences there don't seem to be separated by reading (You will get やめる and とめる sentences when searching for 止める, at least I think so).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-04-21
Does someone know what かね in 「どういうことかねぇ」 means? I feel I get the meaning roughly, but I would like to read more about how to use gobi combinations like わよ・のよ・かよ, too. Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2013-04-21
Tori-kun Wrote:Does someone know what かね in 「どういうことかねぇ」 means? I feel I get the meaning roughly, but I would like to read more about how to use gobi combinations like わよ・のよ・かよ, too. Thanks!I think of it as どういうことか + ね. ね is fulfilling it's normal function of seeking the listeners agreement, so:
どういうことか = I wonder what it is.
どういうことかね = You and I wonder what it is (right?).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - howtwosavealif3 - 2013-04-21
I guess you could think of it like that but it doesn't have to mean "you and I" since you can wonder by yourself.
well this is what yahoo dic says
か‐ね
［連語］《終助詞「か」＋終助詞「ね」》
１ 疑いや不審を抱きながら、念を押す意を表す。「それは本当のこと―」
２ 質問をする意を表す。「元気―」
３ （「どうして…かね」などの形で）詰問や非難の意を表す。「どうしてそんなことをやるの―」
◆主として目下の者に対して用いる。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - headphone_child - 2013-04-21
howtwosavealif3 Wrote:か‐ねThat covers the grammatical part of it. The social part is pretty interesting too though:
［連語］《終助詞「か」＋終助詞「ね」》
１ 疑いや不審を抱きながら、念を押す意を表す。「それは本当のこと―」
２ 質問をする意を表す。「元気―」
３ （「どうして…かね」などの形で）詰問や非難の意を表す。「どうしてそんなことをやるの―」
◆主として目下の者に対して用いる。
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1046723580
The answer says first don't confuse ～かね with ～ですかね, and then says that when used in Tokyo, ～かね is used by superiors talking to people under them, and it's used mostly by older folks. The guy's example is the way his friend's dad talked to him when he was little.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-04-21
Thanks for the replies!
@headphone_child: In fact Meguro-keibu is saying どういうことのかねぇ to Conan-kun in an Episode, so your explanation is fitting.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2013-04-21
瘦身
Can't find the definition of this word, and the book I'm reading has used it twice.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-04-21
From goo (Daijisen):
そう‐しん【痩身】
１ やせたからだ。痩躯(そうく)。
２ 美容の目的でやせること。「―術」
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-04-21
Yudantaiteki was faster
The kanji for 痩せる looks like a Hanzi to me, though.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-04-21
It's the old form -- 痩 wasn't on the old Joyo list so a lot of publications did (and still do) use the old form.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2013-04-21
howtwosavealif3 Wrote:I guess you could think of it like that but it doesn't have to mean "you and I" since you can wonder by yourself.Totally right. Sorry for the misinformation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Growl - 2013-04-22
Could this be an idiom meaning something like "get and idea; get the feeling" イメージをつかむ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - dswift137 - 2013-04-22
嘘ならもっと上手につけ
(Context is a policeman confronting a suspected burglar)
I think this means "If you're going to lie to me, do it better."
Is that right? The "つけ" is the command form of 付く meaning, in this case, "to improve"?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2013-04-22
dswift137 Wrote:嘘ならもっと上手につけつく here is just the verb used for lying. 嘘をつく is 'tell a lie.' I believe the kanji most commonly used is 吐く, but I see it in kana more often. And yeah, it's in the command form つけ, so you have the meaning right for the sentence as a whole.
(Context is a policeman confronting a suspected burglar)
I think this means "If you're going to lie to me, do it better."
Is that right? The "つけ" is the command form of 付く meaning, in this case, "to improve"?