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+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - loverkanji - 2013-03-19
I got a few that I don't undestand.
1. Many japanese let's plays have the word 実況 which the dictionary says means real condition, I assume the meaning is 'real-time' or 'live'. If anybody can clear this up for me...
2. In many let's plays they begin with はじめもして の かた はじめまして or at least that's what it sounds like, what does it mean? Note: I didn't use kanji because I don't know which should be used, the only one I'm sure about is かた should be 方 and in this case it means a polite way to say a person.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-03-19
loverkanji Wrote:I got a few that I don't undestand.It's short for 実況放送, which is the term for a commentary (e.g. for a sports event, or in this case a video game.)
1. Many japanese let's plays have the word 実況 which the dictionary says means real condition, I assume the meaning is 'real-time' or 'live'. If anybody can clear this up for me...
Quote:2. In many let's plays they begin with はじめもして の かた はじめまして or at least that's what it sounds like, what does it mean? Note: I didn't use kanji because I don't know which should be used, the only one I'm sure about is かた should be 方 and in this case it means a polite way to say a person."If you are watching this for the first time, welcome", essentially. Usually they follow that with そうでない方はまたよろしくお願いします or something like that.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Growl - 2013-03-20
How do you say "bench (soccer)" in Japanese? ベンチ？ Does 戦力外 has anything to do with it?
One more thing, I'm almost convinced of this but please tell me otherwise if I'm wrong or just say what you think: なんだ = wtf
Here is one example with my sloppy translation (because it finally became boring to translate Japanese to English):
男だけで飲むのも何だし女の子も連れてこうなんて黒木さんが言ってご指名よ｡
only men drinking? wtf so "let's take a girl" or something, (it was) Kuroki (who) called for her.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zgarbas - 2013-03-20
I came across the sentence 美容院に行っとこう。I am highly confused by the ~とこう. Couldn't find it in the grammar dictionaries either =/. Is it a contraction of some other grammar formation? （ていこう？）
(given the context it should mean "I'm off to the beauty parlour", I think)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-03-20
@Zgarbas: Perhaps it's ておく ?
行っておく → 行っとく → 行っとこう
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zgarbas - 2013-03-20
Not saying it's not, but can you use ておく like that? Is there any difference between it, the normal volitional and ていこう?
(I've always been weird about ておく since 90% of the times it sounds gratuitously used to me)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-03-20
It's definitely いっておこう; It's often difficult to understand the use of -te oku because it's not something we usually express in (most?) Western languages. I guess maybe this sounds like the speaker is going to the salon in preparation for some event or party, or something like that?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Growl - 2013-03-20
おく or the "do in advance" never made sense for my life until I realize it carries very often the same nuance as "make sure". So in Zgarbas example maybe the person is saying "I will make sure to go" or "(you) make sure to go" or "let's make sure we go". だと思う。
@Zgarbas Btw ておく＝とく
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zgarbas - 2013-03-20
I knew about とく、but didn't realize ておこう is a thing
. A strong "Make sure to" would kind of make sense though. Thank you ^^
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2013-03-21
That reminds me: I very often hear やめとこう, and I don't really get why that is so common in comparisn to やめよう. I also say やめとこう sometimes, since I hear it so often, but I don't really get why it's a ておく construction. I have come to think of it as a opportunity cost kind of thing: "Let's stop doing this now (so we can do something else)." Or maybe also as avoiding a bad situation "Let's stop this (before we do something stupid)"?
Anyone know anything more about this?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-03-21
Many dictionaries give two meanings for ておく; one is the familiar "in preparation for the future" whereas the other one is something like "leave it as it is". Usually the latter is connected to phrases like やめとこう and ほっといて.
Here's what goo (Daijisen?) has.
12 （補助動詞）多く動詞の連用形、または、それに助詞「て」を添えた形に付く。
㋐今後の用意のために、あらかじめ…する。「話だけは聞いて―・こう」「この程度のことは勉強して―・くべきだ」「名前は仮にAとして―・こう」
㋑その状態を続けさせる。そのままにする。「窓を開けて―・く」「言わずに―・く」
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-03-21
@Zgarbas: A "make sure" is not expressed by ておく I think. It's rather ～ようにする。
In these cases Meikyo is just the best dictionary I feel:
《｢…ようにする｣の形で》意志的な行為として行う意を表す｡
｢門戸を開いて自由に出入りできるようにする｣
｢彼とはもう二度と会わないようにした｣
｢合格するまでテレビは見ない ことにする/ようにする｣では､前者は〈決定する行為〉に､後者は〈決定の内容〉に重点がある｡
You could say for example you make sure not to forget anything before you depart for atrip:
旅行に旅立つ前に大事な薬物を忘れないようにしてて抗生物質や抗下痢剤などをぎっしりカバンに詰めた。
ておく is like others said expressing something you are doing in advance for something. In concrete, your sentence might mean something like 「今日はね美容に行っとこうって思うさ、明日からテスト期間が始まるから、美容に行く暇はないでしょ。」 I think.
A common examples illustrating ておく well are
準備しといたほうがいいよ。
医者にかけたほうが安全だ。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2013-03-21
In my experience teaching -te oku (and learning it), the biggest difficulty people encounter with it is that it expresses something we don't usually express in English. I think it's fruitless to look for exact English equivalents for -te oku, *ESPECIALLY* English equivalents that would show you the difference between やめよう and やめておこう. Even if you can find some phrases I don't really think they will help your understanding of the Japanese.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Growl - 2013-03-21
まあ, the meaning of "make sure" works in many instances. "let's just go ahead and do…" works sometimes too. Sometimes the meaning is just "will". For example: 今から説明しておきます. しておきます has more 'sound' than します.
I've kinda gotten this from real experiences in which I understood the context anyway.
Here is one example from the subs of Beautiful Rain, some boy's speech in class + my muddy translation:
「ぼくはお年玉やおこづかいをもらうとお母ちゃんに たのんで ちょきんしてもらいます」
when I receive my allowance I asked my mom and get her to deposit for me
「でも 時どき あずけた お金が ちょきんされてないときが あります」
but sometimes it happens that the money is not deposited
「母ちゃん おねがいだからぼくのお金をとらないでちゃんと ちょきんしといてね」
so, mom, please, don't get my money and "make sure to" save/put it in the account
So, he's not really saying "make sure" according to the textbook but that's what he would say in English in this case. If you say "make a deposit in advance" here it's clear you don't speak English very well.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Babyrat - 2013-03-21
I was asking a Japanese person on lang-8 about the usage of 「恋しい」 with friends, I said: "恋人に使用んじゃない?" and he replied with this:
"「恋しい」は恋人に対してじゃなくても使えますよ＾＾
例えば「日本のラーメンが恋しい」とか。
でも普通の友達に対してなら「みんなが恋しいよ」ではなくて「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」でもいいかも＾＾ "
This is how I translate it:
「恋しい」は恋人に対してじゃなくても使えますよ＾＾
"「恋しい」 isn't used just for lovers"
例えば「日本のラーメンが恋しい」とか。
"For example, something like "I miss Japanese ramen""
This is the sentence I can't fully understand, but here is my attempted translation:
でも普通の友達に対してなら「みんなが恋しいよ」ではなくて「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」でもいいかも＾＾ "
"But for general usage with friends, if you don't want to use 「みんなが恋しいよ」 then 「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」 is also fine"
I think what is confusing me about this sentence is the usage of "なくて" which I directly translate as "not there", but I guess it also carries the meaning in this context "of not using"?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - dizmox - 2013-03-21
I think he meant that 「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」 or something is more natural than 「みんなが恋しいよ」 in this context.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Babyrat - 2013-03-21
Ah now you mention it, the なくて makes more sense that way so he is saying:
"But if you are generally using it with friends then don't use (ではなくて） 「みんなが恋しいよ」 「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」 is fine"
「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」 is an odd way of putting it, atleast when directly translating "everyone, not meeting, lonely", "not meeting everyone is sad"?
I am trying to get my translations correct as I want to add this to anki, so please mention if I am translating something badly/wrong
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2013-03-21
I think you've pretty much got to grips with it now but...
Have you noticed that ではなくて is from ではない (じゃない)? So ではなくて in the te-form like this is basically saying 'not this but rather something else'.
if I translate it quite literally:
But if you're using it with an ordinary friend then (でも普通の友達に対してなら)
not "みんなが恋しいよ" but (「みんなが恋しいよ」ではなくて)
"みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ" is also fine (「みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ」でもいい)
With みんなに会えなくて寂しいよ, notice that 会えない is the potential (会う meet → 会える able to meet → 会えない unable to meet)
So, "Being unable to meet everyone, I'm lonely."
Or in more natural English, "It sucks not being able to see you guys" ^^;
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Babyrat - 2013-03-21
That was a brilliant explanation Ash_S, I think I fully understand it now. Wish I could give you some form of internet points
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - corry - 2013-03-21
抜け出せなくなる
means?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2013-03-21
corry Wrote:抜け出せなくなる'to become unable to slip out'.
means?
If you want something less literal and more useful, you need to provide context.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Growl - 2013-03-21
@corry context but what about "I can't run away anymore"
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - corry - 2013-03-21
I got it now thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - loverkanji - 2013-03-25
There is one word that I constantly hear and read: 一応
What does it mean (yes I looked at the dictionary and I still don't understand).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2013-03-25
@loverkanji: The same question was swirling around my head for a long time, too!
I constantly hear/read and actually use this word, yet I do not know if I use it correctly. It is difficult to translate and memorise for me, too
I feel it has a meaning like とりあえず・少なくとも... I might be totally wrong of course.
I wish magamo could explain 一応・とりあえず and 少なくとも・せめて XD