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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Thora - 2012-12-27

delta Wrote:@Thora Ah, that's what it is. Since the last こと is acting as a head (or tail if you will) of the noun phrase it's written in かな.
Not exactly.　

Each of the examples Tzadeck gave (koto, sama, mono) would be heads of noun phrases (modified nouns). That's not surprising given that they're defns ("the act of __", "the state of ___", "a thing that ___", etc). There's no rule they must be in kana when modified.

In the case of こと, it depends what it's function is. For eg, する事 ('thing (I) will do' as opposed to 'doing') and 同じ事 (same thing/matter)　can be either kana or kanji and they are modified nouns.

But yeah, when こと　is acting as a nominalizer/complementizer, it is a modified formal noun and typically in kana. (I added a few clarifications to my post. I hope it's a bit clearer now.)

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

Thanks @Thora.

Another question: I realized そうだ (the 'hearsay' quotational auxiliary verb) seems pretty unique in that I can't think of any other word that attaches to the copula (besides particles). What else can attach to だ?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - blackbrich - 2012-12-28

I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding this part of　彼女はつっこまれるのが好き!

「え.....来てくれないの?」
演技だ。騙されるな。音無さんがこんなに可愛いことを言うわけがない。
「べ、べつにあんたに来てほしいなんて思ってないんだからね!」
.....やっぱり行こうかな.....。
「単純。あんた、悪い女に騙されるわよ」
「はい、現に長いこと、音無まどかという悪女に騙され続けてまし....どぅあ！」

What I'm getting is like "You're not gonna come?"
Its an act. Don't trick me. Otonashi wouldn't say something that cute.

Then I'm lost.
The last part at the end is when he gets hit in the face with a bag.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - qwarten - 2012-12-28

Somebody else should do this and probably would do it better but it should, imo, read like:

"You're not gonne come?"
It's an act. Don't be fooled/tricked. Otonashi wouldn't say something that cute.
"Not that I want you to come... or something!"
Well, perhaps I should go...
"Simpleton [This is, perhaps, too strong, I don't know. Think of something more appropriate]. You're gonna get fooled by an evil woman."
"Well, actually, for a long while now, I have been fooled by a witch goes by the name Otonashi Madoka [but]... ouch!"

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-12-28

delta Wrote:Another question: I realized そうだ (the 'hearsay' quotational auxiliary verb) seems pretty unique in that I can't think of any other word that attaches to the copula (besides particles). What else can attach to だ?
What do you mean by this? そうだ does not attach to the copula, the copula is included in the phrase itself (だ). Rather, そう is a noun/na-adjective, with the copula attached just like any noun/na-adjective. The noun/na-adjective plus the copula だ as a full phrase acts like a auxiliary verb, and is therefore classified in dictionaries as such.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2012-12-28

Hi, I'm looking for an explanation on the difference between 上る (のぼる) and 上る (あがる). Or maybe あがる is usually written 上がる?　Anyway, whenever I see 上る in any text, I'm not sure if it's supposed to read あがる or のぼる. Here's an example from an article I read today:

このうち、最も人数が多くなるのは冬の時期に富士山の北側で噴火した場合で、溶岩が雪を溶かしながら流れ出る火山泥流が富士吉田市や富士河口湖町、それに西桂町などの住宅街に押し寄せるなどして避難が必要になる人はおよそ５万６０００人に上るとしています。

It's near the end.

Whole article: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20121228/k10014491431000.html

So I'm looking for some general information on when のぼる and when あがる is used. Thanks.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

Tzadeck Wrote:
delta Wrote:Another question: I realized そうだ (the 'hearsay' quotational auxiliary verb) seems pretty unique in that I can't think of any other word that attaches to the copula (besides particles). What else can attach to だ?
What do you mean by this? そうだ does not attach to the copula, the copula is included in the phrase itself (だ). Rather, そう is a noun/na-adjective, with the copula attached just like any noun/na-adjective. The noun/na-adjective plus the copula だ as a full phrase acts like a auxiliary verb, and is therefore classified in dictionaries as such.
Nope, you are describing the そう that's a 形容動詞 and follows 連用形. I mean the そうだ that can occur after the copula and expresses hearsay. Like, 外人だそうだ。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2012-12-28

delta Wrote:
Tzadeck Wrote:
delta Wrote:Another question: I realized そうだ (the 'hearsay' quotational auxiliary verb) seems pretty unique in that I can't think of any other word that attaches to the copula (besides particles). What else can attach to だ?
What do you mean by this? そうだ does not attach to the copula, the copula is included in the phrase itself (だ). Rather, そう is a noun/na-adjective, with the copula attached just like any noun/na-adjective. The noun/na-adjective plus the copula だ as a full phrase acts like a auxiliary verb, and is therefore classified in dictionaries as such.
Nope, you are describing the そう that's a 形容動詞 and follows 連用形. I mean the そうだ that can occur after the copula and expresses hearsay. Like, 外人だそうだ。
だから
だけど, だけれど, etc.
だなんて
だとか
だもの

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

Thanks @fakewookie, but… notice:
delta Wrote:(besides particles)
In short, I am looking for another word that behaves as uniquely as the hearsay そう.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2012-12-28

delta Wrote:Thanks @fakewookie, but… notice:
delta Wrote:(besides particles)
In short, I am looking for another word that behaves as uniquely as the hearsay そう.
That depends on your definition of "particle". I don't consider any of what I posted to be particles. とか, maybe.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

Call them whatever you like, but they don't behave like そう syntactically (which is what I am looking for, だから is conjunctive, だそうだ is predicative) so I don't know what you are trying to get at here.

EDIT: Said in a good-hearted tone btw.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2012-12-28

You asked for words that attach to だ. Not sure how the things I posted don't fit that description.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

I am asking for words that behave like the hearsay そう, not for any words that can appear after the copula.

Myself Wrote:In short, I am looking for another word that behaves as uniquely as the hearsay そう.
Lol

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2012-12-28

delta Wrote:I am asking for words that behave like the hearsay そう, not for any words that can appear after the copula.

Myself Wrote:In short, I am looking for another word that behaves as uniquely as the hearsay そう.
Lol
Well, what you asked was this:

delta Wrote:I can't think of any other word that attaches to the copula (besides particles). What else can attach to だ?
Which is what I've provided. But as for what you're asking now, you need to define exactly what you mean by "words that behave like the hearsay そう".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-28

I mean words that behave syntactically like the hearsay そう.

For example:
sentenceだと〜

But also does そう
sentenceだそうだ

EDIT: I just noticed だから, can also function like this, ~だからだ。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-12-28

delta Wrote:Nope, you are describing the そう that's a 形容動詞 and follows 連用形. I mean the そうだ that can occur after the copula and expresses hearsay. Like, 外人だそうだ。
Ah, okay, I wasn't thinking clearly.

I can't think of anything that fits what you're looking for that follows the copula in だ or です form, but plenty of things follow である.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2012-12-28

apirx Wrote:Hi, I'm looking for an explanation on the difference between 上る (のぼる) and 上る (あがる). Or maybe あがる is usually written 上がる?　Anyway, whenever I see 上る in any text, I'm not sure if it's supposed to read あがる or のぼる. Here's an example from an article I read today:

このうち、最も人数が多くなるのは冬の時期に富士山の北側で噴火した場合で、溶岩が雪を溶かしながら流れ出る火山泥流が富士吉田市や富士河口湖町、それに西桂町などの住宅街に押し寄せるなどして避難が必要になる人はおよそ５万６０００人に上るとしています。

It's near the end.

Whole article: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20121228/k10014491431000.html

So I'm looking for some general information on when のぼる and when あがる is used. Thanks.
「あがる」is normally written「上がる」while「のぼる」is written「上る」.
This also pops out when you search 「のぼる」in the dictionary:
「⑦ 数量が、無視できない相当の程度に達する。「死傷者が数百人に―・る」」

This thesaurus entry may be helpful for differentiating other meanings:
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/thsrs/15966/m0u/

Also this:
http://okwave.jp/qa/q875721.html

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Jombo - 2012-12-29

Hey guys, I'm doing a translation of this one web video for fun (
), and I need some help with a few words. I'll put down some words that I'm unsure about to see if it's an OK translation. Tell me if I should choose one word, there's a better word, or if it doesn't matter.

I'm translating from English to Japanese by the way.

Brawl (e.g. one vs. one fist fighting) - 乱闘 or 喧嘩
Sword - 剣 or 刀 (basically, does 刀 refer to ONLY the Japanese katana?)
Headbutt - 頭突き or ヘッドバット
Remote Detonator - 信管
Self Devour - ???
Self Decapitation - ???
Implosion - 爆縮
Folding ([death by] folding) - 折り
Staff (giant wooden stick) - スターフ when I googled this I got a bunch of company staff members
Stampede - 潰走

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - activeaero - 2012-12-30

清掃に入っていますか。　This looks simple enough but I was thrown off the first time I heard it. They use it at a Manga Kissa when you extended your stay. 　I know they are basically asking if I want them to clean the room again but I just really don't get why the ています form of 入るis being used. If they said something like 清掃に入りませんか or 清掃に入りましょうか then it would make a little more sense to me as that conveys more of a "Shall we enter for the purpose of cleaning?".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-12-30

But doesn't this mean "are you cleaning?".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-12-30

Are you sure it's not 入っていますが? Then it would mean "I'm entering the room to clean it, but...[is that OK?]"

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - somstuff - 2012-12-30

This isn't really a word/phrase but..

If you're walking home with someone, and you wanna say "this path is old" would you say この道は古い or この道が古い ? Assume path hasn't come up in conversation yet. If it's は, how can you say that 道 is the "topic" if it hasn't come up yet.

In general, if your bring up a new subject randomly, should you use が or は?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - activeaero - 2012-12-30

この道は古い would be the correct of the two and in casual speech you can just drop the particle all together if you want. In fact that would actually be the most natural from my experience.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2012-12-30

somstuff Wrote:If it's は, how can you say that 道 is the "topic" if it hasn't come up yet.
It is the topic of the new sentence you're now saying. It's not related to what has come before it.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-12-30

Also it has "come up" in the sense that you are standing in the road and both people can see it. So it's OK to mark it with は as known information -- the fact that you can use この before 道 means that it's already known to both people.