+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-11-28
If you think of it in English as "If [you] are called by name, please stand up" it might be clearer (it's still not a direct obj in English but it's not the subject.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - CloverJoker - 2012-11-28
何を引き替えにしても構わない。
Not 100% sure how to ask this but, for the 何を・・・しても
Seems like when you have a case like this its, doing "anything" to whatever is inside 何を・・・しても.
In this case it would be something like, I don't mind even if I exchange anything.
Ive seen a similar case where it was
ゲームやっても誰の迷惑にもなっていないだろ。
I came up with something like,
誰の [noun] にも [verb] is like, "anyone doing verb towards noun".
Ive only picked this up this pattern from examples sentences, and if anyone could confirm or shed some light on this, that'd be great.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-11-28
ても is "even if". So ゲームやっても is "Even if I play video games."
With a question word, it becomes "no matter what X". 何を読んでもかまわない。 (I don't care what I read.) 誰が来ても大丈夫だろう。 (It should be OK no matter who comes.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2012-11-28
A question:
私はいい人を見つけたので、早速田中さんにその人に会ってもらった。
"I found a good man, so I asked Mr. Tanaka to see him right away."
Could someone explain why is it Tanaka that is going to see the man and not the other way around? Is Tanaka not receiving the favor of the man meeting him?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - astendra - 2012-11-28
I think the speaker is the one recieving the favor. He asked Tanaka to see the man (per the translation), and Tanaka complied.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2012-11-28
That's most likely the case, I seem to have been obsessed by the second part of the sentence to realize this. Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2012-11-28
Betelgeuzah Wrote:A question:When I see sentences like this in Japanese I get the same feel as I do from the English sentence "I'll have him ... (for me)." - This translation may help to reinforce that 私 is the one receiving the favor.
私はいい人を見つけたので、早速田中さんにその人に会ってもらった。
"I found a good man, so I asked Mr. Tanaka to see him right away."
Could someone explain why is it Tanaka that is going to see the man and not the other way around? Is Tanaka not receiving the favor of the man meeting him?
For example, "I'll have Tanaka meet him (for me)."
Another example:
明日修理屋に見てもらうつもりです。
"(I) plan to have a repairman look at it (for me) tomorrow." (Taken from a blog post in which a man's boat had been damaged.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-11-28
Betelgeuzah Wrote:私はいい人を見つけたので、早速田中さんにその人に会ってもらった。Note that you shouldn't get carried away with thinking about this being a 'favor.' てもらう is more about getting someone to do something. The subject of the sentence is who is getting someone to do something (私), and the person who is doing the something (田中さん) is marked by に.
"I found a good man, so I asked Mr. Tanaka to see him right away."
Could someone explain why is it Tanaka that is going to see the man and not the other way around? Is Tanaka not receiving the favor of the man meeting him?
The guy speaking could easily be Tanaka's superior, and he's basically telling Tanaka that he needs to meet with this guy. It's not necessarily a favor--it can be a command too.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-11-28
Right -- it expresses benefit, but not necessarily the concept of a "favor" (which usually indicates something you do which isn't required of you, and that the other person may be expected to repay the favor). If you watch enough anime you'll eventually hear 死んでもらう, and you also hear things IRL like やめてもらいたい, which basically translates to "knock it off."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-11-28
This is from a document describing a plan to produce a CD (from my school).
1. 実用編については来年１月以上順次取り掛かり５月の単語マラソンに間に合わせる
- 実用編 is the practical English edition of a series of booklets produced by the school.
- 単語マラソン is a school event (a test).
About the Practical Edition Series: Starting from January next year (in order?) until May, in time for the Word Marathon.
I get the general picture, but the sentence is pretty long and I am not exactly sure how it works. Are there any obvious particles omitted? Do you think 順次 refers to "the months" or to "other booklet editions"?
2. その他検討すべき話題
Can we translate 検討すべき話題 as "topic(s) that should be considered"?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-11-28
Quick + question. What is the meaning of ending a sentence with nande.
For example: 沖縄には美味しいものがたくさんあるそうなんで。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2012-11-29
delta Wrote:実用編については来年１月以上順次取り掛かり５月の単語マラソンに間に合わせる1月以上 is a little odd.. not 以降？ Anyway the sentence sounds like they wish to start in January and run through those booklets to a certain (though not stated here) point at such a speed so as to finish up to that point by the time of the Word Marathon in May.
- 実用編 is the practical English edition of a series of booklets produced by the school.
- 単語マラソン is a school event (a test).
I get the general picture, but the sentence is pretty long and I am not exactly sure how it works. Are there any obvious particles omitted? Do you think 順次 refers to "the months" or to "other booklet editions"?
And as months come in the same order every year, we can assume that 順次 is referring to the booklets!
delta Wrote:2. その他検討すべき話題"Considered" or "discussed." 検討 sounds like they want to dig into the topic a little and discuss the pros/cons- something like that.
Can we translate 検討すべき話題 as "topic(s) that should be considered"?
delta Wrote:Quick + question. What is the meaning of ending a sentence with nande.んで／なんで can be another way to say "because." Maybe a little informal? Although it's used after ます form too. 「明日行きますんで・・・」
For example: 沖縄には美味しいものがたくさんあるそうなんで。
Maybe it's that? Without the rest of the context I'm not sure but it's a possibility. 8)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-11-29
How do you translate the sentences then? That'd be the most helpful.
As for the extra question, the register is not even a little informal, or at least it shouldn't be, since the speaker is addressing and old lady, her girl friend's grandmother. It is formal all the way but then she throws in the なんで.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2012-11-29
I hate translating for the sake of understanding a language in process of being learned but I'll try. ><
実用編については来年１月以上順次取り掛かり５月の単語マラソンに間に合わせる
Concerning the Practical Edition Series: Starting next January we will begin working in order on the booklets so as to be finished(?) in time for the Word Marathon in May.
その他検討すべき話題
Other topics to be discussed.
沖縄には美味しいものがたくさんあるそうなんで
I hear there's a lot of good food in Okinawa so...
これでええかな・・汗
I'm bad at translating. I don't think my English brain and Japanese brain communicate very well with each other.
Like I say, んで／なんで can be used with polite forms too so no problem there I suppose! I thought maybe kinda informal at first but maybe it's fine!
(Although with this one the context is still a little 気になる.)
..forgetting english.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-11-29
delta Wrote:Quick + question. What is the meaning of ending a sentence with nande.Without context it's really hard to say what this is. If this is a contraction of なので it has to be in some context where that makes sense. Otherwise there may be a missing す at the end or a mistype of で for だ.
For example: 沖縄には美味しいものがたくさんあるそうなんで。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-11-29
There is no missing す (because the sentence or a slightly modified version of it reappears in subsequent drills of the lesson) and that is a single sentence that answers the question "why are you excited about going to Okinawa?". This is off a lower intermediate textbook, nothing should be fancy about this.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that なんで＝なんです. But this is wrong right?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2012-11-29
It is because んで・ので is being used as a final particle and is perfectly ok in this kind of situation. ので is a form of のだ, so there is no need to be confused with the absence of す. You can view this application as being a softer speech style.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - drdunlap - 2012-11-30
If that's the context then what I said is correct..!
It's being used in place of ので to state the reason.
Only in context the translation would become "Because I hear there's a lot of good food in Okinawa."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vileru - 2012-11-30
I have no idea what the difference between「だろう」and「だろうに」is. Anyone know? In particular, in which cases can each be used and can the「に」part of「だろうに」be omitted in the following sentence?
もう少し資金さえあれば、この土地を全部は買えないまでも半分は買えるだろうに残念でならない。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - delta - 2012-11-30
imabi Wrote:It is because んで・ので is being used as a final particle and is perfectly ok in this kind of situation. ので is a form of のだ, so there is no need to be confused with the absence of す. You can view this application as being a softer speech style.Ok, so just to get this right, this is just like んです then?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2012-11-30
Delta: Yes. ので・んで are just のだ・んだ inside a sentence, and sentence inversion or sentence cut-off makes them exposed at the end of sentences in this lighter speech style.
だろうに means "even though it's supposed to be". At the end of a sentence, it is like "how I wish!". The politer form is possible, but the pattern as a whole is losing currency, and some speakers may not quite know what it means. I once had a Japanese person utterly confused, especially with an example of でしょうに. I almost see this in literature.
Vileru: So, it's not quite the same thing as だろう, but it's also something that can easily be reworded with something else. The biggest thing that you should be worrying about is knowing the difference when it's at the end of the sentence. The reason you can't just drop に in your sentence is that this is a remnant usage of the conjunctive particle に, which is very similar to が.
買えるだろうに ≒ 買えるはずなのに
More or less.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - undead_saif - 2012-11-30
I've a question about a sentence in TK. I'm past the lesson in which this sentence is, but I'm still having problems with it, it seems to me as a typo now.
The sentence (and the relevant context) is:
"アリス：その人が買うんじゃなかったの？
Alice: Wasn't it that that person was the one to buy?
ボブ：ううん、先生が買うんだ。
Bob: No, it is that teacher is the one to buy." (example 4)*
The の at the end of the first sentence seems to me, as far as I understand the lesson, to be superfluous and should be removed.
Also, shouldn't the translation be "Wasn't it that that person is the one to buy?"
An example that doesn't contain the の:
"アリス：今、授業がないんじゃない？" (example 3)*
Thanks in advance!
*Ref: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/nounparticles
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2012-11-30
The questioning の on the end is completely fine and natural. It has the same sense of questioning/seeking an explanation that it normally does.
As far as the translation goes, it seems TK's translations directly under the Japanese sentences try to stay super literally close to the actual Japanese grammar. If you have a look a little further down he gives a bit better sounding English translation:
Alice: Wasn't that person going to buy? (Expecting that the person would buy)
Bob: No, the teacher is going to. (Explanatory)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - undead_saif - 2012-11-30
Thanks for replying.
Doesn't "んじゃなかった" give the sense of seeking an explanation? The second example doesn't include that "の".
I'm aware of the literal translation, that's why it supposed to be more adhering to the Japanese sentence, and so it stands out as wrong.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - imabi - 2012-11-30
What you should realize is that it is also used in casual questioning. So, this is like a past tense version of じゃん。