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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-09-05
What is 手をうる? Kazuko did it after she was finally able to remember something.
「なにか自分がいまに、とんでもないことをしでかしそうなのである。」
"[Kazuko] felt as if she would do unthinkable thinks even now."
Not sure here.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-09-06
星になって消ゆ
That's the title of one episode of the anime I'm watching.
It's translated as "Become a star and disappear".
What's going on in 消ゆ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-09-06
turvy Wrote:星になって消ゆ消ゆ (きゆ) seems to be a literary form of 消える. It seems to be fairly rare.
That's the title of one episode of the anime I'm watching.
It's translated as "Become a star and disappear".
What's going on in 消ゆ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-09-06
What do kids do when they see that? Geez…
Man, is Japanese infinite?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-06
Even kids anime has some classical forms in it sometimes; probably the same way that you can see thou and -est even in kids' cartoons or shows in English. (Even if they don't understand it, it's just a title so it wouldn't matter so much.)
Almost all verbs that end in -eru in the modern language are derived from verbs ending in -u in classical Japanese. So ki(y)eru is from kiyu ("ye" just becomes "e"). Taberu is from tabu. Ka(h)eru (change) is from kafu. Heru (減る) is from fu. Eru (得る) is from u. And so on. This is why the okurigana for these verbs sometimes seems odd (i.e. why is it 食べる instead of just 食る).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-09-06
Yeah, I figured someone who understands classical Japanese could comment further, haha.
Btw, does anyone know what things like 動ヤ下二 and 自下二 mean? When I looked up 消ゆ these are being used to describe the verb (and one dictionary seems to imply that 消える is 下一). I'm guessing that the 動ヤ means that it is a verb whose last mora starts with y (i.e., it's in the 'ya' group), and the 下一 and 下二 somehow imply what type of verb it is (conjugation type?).
Edit: Actually, after thinking about it for a few minutes I think I got it, haha. (For example, 自 must mean 自動詞) It's silly that I never thought about it before.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-09-06
Where did you look up 消ゆ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-09-06
turvy Wrote:Where did you look up 消ゆ?Well, I have an electronic dictionary, so I looked it up in the 広辞苑 6th edition (which is a big famous Japanese dictionary). I also did a quick google search (I typed in 消ゆとは) and a couple internet dictionary definitions came up.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-07
Tzadeck Wrote:Yeah, I figured someone who understands classical Japanese could comment further, haha.Yes; these are classical conjugation categories -- modern Japanese has only ichi-dan and go-dan, but classical has 四段、上一段、下一段、上ニ段、下二段, and then a few irregular categories like ラ変. The 下 and 上 literally refer to whether the verb's forms involve vowels on the upper part of the 五十音表 (a or i) or the bottom part (e or o), and the number is how many different vowels are used in the conjugations. (The reason modern Japanese has a 5-dan form but classical only has 4-dan is that classical Japanese did not have the modern volitional form so 4-dan verbs had no "o" vowel conjugation.)
Btw, does anyone know what things like 動ヤ下二 and 自下二 mean? When I looked up 消ゆ these are being used to describe the verb (and one dictionary seems to imply that 消える is 下一). I'm guessing that the 動ヤ means that it is a verb whose last mora starts with y (i.e., it's in the 'ya' group), and the 下一 and 下二 somehow imply what type of verb it is (conjugation type?). .
I think that 消える being 下一 sounds like a modern category; I guess it's 下 because え is on the bottom but that's not a very useful distinction because I guess you would just have 上一 for anything ending in -iru and 下一 if it ends in -eru.
J->E dictionaries will never have 消ゆ (at least I've never seen one that had that kind of word) but any large J-J dictionary will have it. However, some of them will just redirect you to the modern form of the verb if it still exists.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Zorlee - 2012-09-08
Quick question:
前作のあとメトロノームをどうのってセミナーで言われたんやったっけ
I really don't understand the をどうのって part. Is it どう the same as in どうだろう？
I'm guessing it means something like メトロノームを使ったらどうって言われた, but I'm really not sure...
I've found a lot of google hits for をどうのってxxx言う, but I'm really not familiar with the pattern. Another example:
嫌ならスルーすればいいんだし、それをどうのって熱く言ってる方が余計スレが加熱するだけ。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-09-09
「吾朗は目をまるくした。そして、背の低い、横にはみだしたからだをふるっと大きくふるわした。」
Confused about this.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitsu - 2012-09-10
@Zorlee
Maybe どう の って?
「こそあど」のどう
Explanatory の
'quoting' って
Something like "it's that no matter how you say"?
嫌ならスルーすればいいんだし、それをどうのって熱く言ってる方が余計スレが加熱するだけ。
If it's objectionable than saying you're through is fine, (no matter how you say (more)) continuing speaking heatedly just results in an over heated thread (i.e. flame war).
と言うことかな… Sounds like good forum advice to me.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2012-09-15
Is there a special reason why words with a very general meaning, like こと, ところ, もの, とき or even ない are sometimes written in kanji, sometimes not?
I do get that sometimes the kanji conveys some additional meaning, for example 者 refers to a person and 物 to an object. But I'm wondering if there is any meaning why e.g. とき wouldn't be written 時. It doesn't seem to be a question of style, because I've seen ない, 無い, とき and 時 all in the same text.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2012-09-15
@apirx: I think that at least some of the time it's just about maintaining the right balance of kanji to kana.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-15
kitsu Wrote:嫌ならスルーすればいいんだし、それをどうのって熱く言ってる方が余計スレが加熱するだけ。One correction: スルー means to ignore something. So "If you don't like it, don't read it."
If it's objectionable than saying you're through is fine, (no matter how you say (more)) continuing speaking heatedly just results in an over heated thread (i.e. flame war).
と言うことかな… Sounds like good forum advice to me.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - iSoron - 2012-09-15
Zorlee Wrote:Quick question:There's really not enough context to translate this one, but I guess it means something like "oh yeah, after my last work, I think someone told me something [complained] about metronomes or whatever at [one of my] seminars". I could be completely off, though.
前作のあとメトロノームをどうのってセミナーで言われたんやったっけ
I really don't understand the をどうのって part. Is it どう the same as in どうだろう？
kitsu Wrote:嫌ならスルーすればいいんだし、それをどうのって熱く言ってる方が余計スレが加熱するだけ。"If you don't like it, just ignore it. If you keep complaining [saying this and that] about it, you will only make the flame war worse."
TheVinster Wrote:「吾朗は目をまるくした。そして、背の低い、横にはみだしたからだをふるっと大きくふるわした。」Maybe this is less confusing?「そして、背の低い、横に食み出した体をふるっと大きく震わした」
Confused about this.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-15
apirx Wrote:Is there a special reason why words with a very general meaning, like こと, ところ, もの, とき or even ない are sometimes written in kanji, sometimes not?One of the stylistic choices or rules you sometimes encounter is that words with a grammatical function should be written in kana. So an author might use 所 if it's the actual noun "place" but ところ if it's the grammatical marker. This seems to be pretty widespread in my experience, but not universal. This doesn't explain 無い, which isn't used as often as the kana version.
I do get that sometimes the kanji conveys some additional meaning, for example 者 refers to a person and 物 to an object. But I'm wondering if there is any meaning why e.g. とき wouldn't be written 時. It doesn't seem to be a question of style, because I've seen ない, 無い, とき and 時 all in the same text.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-09-17
「和子は、しばらくは自分の姿を敵に見せるまいと思った。」
Don't understand the まい here.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitakitsune - 2012-09-17
TheVinster Wrote:「和子は、しばらくは自分の姿を敵に見せるまいと思った。」http://www.renshuu.org/index.php?page=grammar/individual&id=324
Don't understand the まい here.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2012-09-18
難易度順
Option to sort a list on a computer. Is it
順 じゅん
(n,n-suf,adj-na) order; turn; obedient; docile; submissive; meek; (P)
or
順 ずん
(n,n-suf,adj-na,ok) order; turn; (P)
?
Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Rayath - 2012-09-18
apirx Wrote:難易度順じゅん. ずん is an obsolete reading.
Option to sort a list on a computer. Is it
順 じゅん
(n,n-suf,adj-na) order; turn; obedient; docile; submissive; meek; (P)
or
順 ずん
(n,n-suf,adj-na,ok) order; turn; (P)
?
Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-09-19
「あなたって、もっと落ち着いているのかと思ったら、案外あわてんぼなのね」
How does it translate?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-20
Just when I thought you might be fairly level-headed, you're actually pretty wild, aren't you?
Or something like that. (This is one of the many non-conditional uses of -tara, it just means "X is true, then Y")
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-09-20
@yudantaiteki: It's this guy right? http://is.gd/SWK1b8
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-09-20
Looks like it. I didn't realize that was treated as a separate grammar pattern but it might be worth remembering that way because of the unusual use of tara.