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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitakitsune - 2012-06-20
Also remember that in Japanese, it is always 0.5 and never .5. You can't omit the zero like we can in English.
I actually just learned that the other day.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - markaleksander - 2012-06-20
Thanks. I should have known that just from knowing how 点（てん） is used.
I just figured out if you type 「さんじゅうてんにど」and press space a bunch of times to get the kanji, you can select ・from the options that come up. I'd wondered how to get that particular style of decimal point.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Rayath - 2012-06-21
Years after learning ~ておく I have a simple problem with it...
ドアを開けておく
leave [keep] the door open. （※leaveはドアを開けたまま放置しておく. keepはドアを意図的に開けたままにしておく）
Does this mean that the door is already open and we just leave/keep it that way, or that we first open the door and then leave/keep it that way? I'm thinking it's the latter meaning, but that explanation after こめじるし confused me a bit, because there's nothing about opening the door there.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2012-06-21
Without context, you can't tell. It's still the same 〜ておく that you've always known and loved. You're opening the door "in preparation" for something, if you will.
The explanation about keep/leave is more for the Japanese people know when to use 'keep' and when to use 'leave.' You use 'leave the door open' if it's opened and leave it like that. You use 'keep the door open' when you intentionally want to make sure the door is left opened.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - JimmySeal - 2012-06-21
Rayath Wrote:Years after learning ~ておく I have a simple problem with it...FYI - The part in parentheses is explaining the English sentence. If you use that to try to make sense of the Japanese sentence, you're gonna have a bad time.
ドアを開けておく
leave [keep] the door open. （※leaveはドアを開けたまま放置しておく. keepはドアを意図的に開けたままにしておく）
Does this mean that the door is already open and we just leave/keep it that way, or that we first open the door and then leave/keep it that way? I'm thinking it's the latter meaning, but that explanation after こめじるし confused me a bit, because there's nothing about opening the door there.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Rayath - 2012-06-21
Asriel Wrote:Without context, you can't tell. It's still the same 〜ておく that you've always known and loved. You're opening the door "in preparation" for something, if you will.So can it mean that someone else has opened the door in the past, and now we leave it open? Or we had to open that door?
The explanation about keep/leave is more for the Japanese people know when to use 'keep' and when to use 'leave.' You use 'leave the door open' if it's opened and leave it like that. You use 'keep the door open' when you intentionally want to make sure the door is left opened.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - callmedodge - 2012-06-21
彼女が怒るのも当然だ。
Curious as to what exactly the のも is doing in this sentence. Would it be the same as 事は with も instead, implying that she`s both angry and being natural?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Rayath - 2012-06-21
callmedodge Wrote:彼女が怒るのも当然だ。の here changes the verb 怒る into a noun, same as 怒ること would do. も joins noun to mean "also" and all this would be natural - 当然.
Curious as to what exactly the のも is doing in this sentence. Would it be the same as 事は with も instead, implying that she`s both angry and being natural?
"It's natural that she also would be angry."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - JimmySeal - 2012-06-21
Rayath Wrote:So can it mean that someone else has opened the door in the past, and now we leave it open? Or we had to open that door?It can mean either.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - JimmySeal - 2012-06-21
callmedodge Wrote:彼女が怒るのも当然だ。Do you have any more context for this sentence?
Curious as to what exactly the のも is doing in this sentence. Would it be the same as 事は with も instead, implying that she`s both angry and being natural?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-06-21
I guess the も is an emphasizer here. Could you parse/understand the sentence with のは・のが? I guess も is the only one correct here because it should emphasize the fact that "she damnd has every right to be angry [in that way]"....
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-06-21
Lately I've been relying on translations less than I used to, but I am going to need to some help this time. Since Japanese is so different to English (or any other language for that matter), I think meaningful and well crafted translations are ok for movies, books, etc., however, for learners literal translation it's the way to go IMO even if it sounds funny or ridiculous.
Please take a look at the following sentences:
[This is from a single sheet of paper than was handed during the English Club meeting at my school, it lists several observations regarding the "Spring Picnic" event held one week ago.]
2012年EE春のピクニック反省点
Reflections of the 2012 EE Spring Picnic
１ マイクの音量
Microphone sound.
２ 時間が押してしまった。１４０名参加予定だったが本初の１８０名予定ならもっとオーバーしていた（２等・３等が渡せなかった）
I get the gist of it but a literal translation would be better.
３ お買い物をするとき、挨拶同様にCan I have a ~ ?を練習させておけばよかった。
It would have been good to practice the "Can I have a ~?" 同様に greeting during the purchasing [one of the games / activities we held].
４ 外国人のサインをもらえなかったと残念がっていた子がいた。
There were children disappointed [ (when they) or (that) ] couldn't get the signature / seal from the foreign teacher.
５ ピクニックの内容によっては外国人３人でもよかったか（時間短縮になる）
Depending on what the picnic is about even 3 foreigners was ok?. I am not sure about this one.
６ 外国人のテンションが低めだった。授業中と同じテンションで
The tension of the foreigners were as low as during the lesson. (What do you think tension means? energy? spirit?)
７ 赤羽勇唱のデモは挨拶と買い物のデモまでやればよかった
As for 赤羽勇唱's demo, a demonstration of the greeting and shopping [game] would have been good.
８ 準備に余裕を持ってやれた
No idea. Prep was good? Is this an expression.
９ メニューが言えない子がいた（事前練習が必要だったか）
There were children who couldn't say the [words from the] menu. (Previous practice was needed.) What is the function of か in here?
Thank you...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-06-21
turvy Wrote:１ マイクの音量As the 量 suggests, this is "volume".
Microphone sound.
Quote:５ ピクニックの内容によっては外国人３人でもよかったか（時間短縮になる）I'm not sure what this means either; it sounds like 3 foreigners would have been OK?
Depending on what the picnic is about even 3 foreigners was ok?. I am not sure about this one.
Quote:６ 外国人のテンションが低めだった。授業中と同じテンションでIt means excitement.
The tension of the foreigners were as low as during the lesson. (What do you think tension means? energy? spirit?)
Quote:９ メニューが言えない子がいた（事前練習が必要だったか）か makes it a question. "Was previous practice needed?" It's sort of a "maybe".
There were children who couldn't say the [words from the] menu. (Previous practice was needed.) [b]What is the function of か in here?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-06-22
From Norwegian Wood: 「失われた時間、死にあるいは去っていった人々、もう戻ることのない想い。」
So he talks about the time that was lost, the people that died or had otherwise left him, and that there was no reason to return. Correct? I feel I understand the sentence but what structure I didn't get was 死にあるいは. According to what I looked up, あるいは means "or" or "possibly". Why does it become 死に though?
By the way if anyone viewing this has read the book, do you think it'd be a doable read? Sure I'm learning a TON of new words on each page but if I keep working at it I feel like I'll finally stop trudging uphill and that it'll become more and more understandable as time goes on.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-06-22
I'm not 100% sure about this, but you know how in formal/written contexts the -ます stem will sometimes get used as a connecting form instead of the ーて form? I think that's why 死に is being used here. And あるいは is "or else."
But the last part of the sentence is more like "Thoughts/feelings that would never return."
Norwegian Wood was the first novel that I read in Japanese. My Japanese level was pretty low when I started it (2 years high school Japanese + self study). I actually had to stop reading in the middle because it got too depressing, but I definitely got a lot out of it and by the time I was most of the way through I was able to read pretty good stretches with adequate comprehension without using a dictionary (although there were still a ton of words I didn't know).
In terms of diction and the overall vocabulary level, it's easier than a lot of light novels I've read.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - JimmySeal - 2012-06-22
People convince themselves that books are harder than they really are, by obsessing over every little detail and every single word. Your question about this sentence is a case in point. You already know what it means, so rather than ask why it is the way it is, just say, "Ok, we've got a stem form (死に), followed by あるいは, followed by another verb. That's a way of expressing that concept. Neat." And once you've seen it a few more times, it'll be like old hat. No need to match it up against something in some grammar guide somewhere.
Just lighten up your grip and the whole process will become a lot easier.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-06-22
If you don't understand the grammar you can't trust your feeling that you know what it means, so it's good to ask. (As an illustration of that, his interpretation of the end of the sentence was totally wrong, possibly based on a misunderstanding of the grammar, that it was a modifying clause for 思い.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-06-22
A few weeks ago I was sitting by the Kamogawa with a Japanese girl and I made a joke about going to die (I don't really remember why, haha). And I said 死にに行く, but she told me that most people would say 死に行く. So I think 死に行く is some sort of idiom.
So when I saw that sentence I thought 死に might be paired with the 行った, rather than thought of as a stem form.
Could that be possible?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-06-23
Yeah, it makes sense to me that way.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-06-23
I appreciate the help on my previous inquiry and I now understand it better. Doing some reading today so if you don't mind I'll just keep asking questions as I go.
「記憶というのはなんだか不思議なものだ。
その中に実際に身を置いていたとき、僕はそんな風景に殆ど注意なんて払わなかった。
とくに印象的な風景だとも思わなかったし・・・」
It goes on from there but I'm still reading. Just taking the time to ask this while I remember. I understand the first sentence as "What a wonderous thing the memory is." The 2nd sentence lost me completely. The 3rd sentence I probably understand but I am figuring the full meaning derives from what the 2nd sentence said. He says that in particular he didn't even think it was impressive scenery? Or something.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2012-06-23
その中に実際に身を置いていたとき、僕はそんな風景に殆ど注意なんて払わなかった。
"When I was actually there I didn't pay much attention to my surroundings"
I'm guessing you were confused by その中 since it doesn't follow on from the previous sentence. I'm pretty sure it is "in that place", so with 実際に身を置いていたとき it means "When I was actually in that place", but I don't know if that actually makes sense in the context.
とくに印象的な風景だとも思わなかったし・・・」
I didn't think it was the kind of place that would leave a strong impression.
Basically, I think he's saying
"Memory is such a strange thing.
When I was actually there I didn't pay much attention to my surroundings.
It's not like it seemed particularly noteworthy"
And I'm guessing at some point he also says something to the effect of "but I remember it clearly". If not I've probably misunderstood something.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2012-06-23
TheVinster Wrote:I appreciate the help on my previous inquiry and I now understand it better. Doing some reading today so if you don't mind I'll just keep asking questions as I go.I don't think 'wondrous' is quite right for なんだか不思議. Jay Rubin translates this sentence as "Memory is a funny thing", incidentally.
「記憶というのはなんだか不思議なものだ。
その中に実際に身を置いていたとき、僕はそんな風景に殆ど注意なんて払わなかった。
とくに印象的な風景だとも思わなかったし・・・」
It goes on from there but I'm still reading. Just taking the time to ask this while I remember. I understand the first sentence as "What a wonderous thing the memory is."
Quote:The 2nd sentence lost me completely.OK, let's break it down a bit. The first part (...とき) is just a relative clause modifying the last part: 僕はそんな風景に殆ど注意なんて払わなかった, which is "Xに注意を払わない" == "to pay no attention to X"; I'm guessing you can probably fill in the rest of that. The とき clause is a bit trickier. weblio gives a definition of 身を置く as "ある環境や状況に囲まれた状態にする。携わる。". The other important point is that "その中" here is a reference not to "記憶" but to the scenery that was being described in the paragraph before your quote starts.
Overall Splatted's translation is right, and you can find the relevant page in the amazon.com 'look inside' if you want the more polished professional version.
Quote:The 3rd sentence I probably understand but I am figuring the full meaning derives from what the 2nd sentence said. He says that in particular he didn't even think it was impressive scenery? Or something.Think more 'scenery which makes an impression' rather than 'impressive' -- ie, at the time it didn't seem like something he'd remember all these years later.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-06-23
Thanks again both of you, I understand now. After 2 years of studying Japanese it really hits me hard to know my reading comprehension is so low. It's my own fault for not committing to reading books.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2012-06-23
TheVinster Wrote:Thanks again both of you, I understand now. After 2 years of studying Japanese it really hits me hard to know my reading comprehension is so low. It's my own fault for not committing to reading books.It definitely took me more than two years to get to the level of reading Norwegian Wood... Assuming you understand the grammar/etc when you know what the sentence is supposed to mean, I think the rest is really just practice, which moves patterns from "I know this if I think about it" to "I just know this". The more of that you do, the less often you encounter a sentence where two or three "don't know this" or "kinda know this but not really" things pile up at once and leave you floundering with too much to guess and not enough context...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - TheVinster - 2012-06-25
Okay just a few more. Worked all day yesterday so I didn't get a chance to read.
「まわりの風景に気持を向ける余裕なんてどこにもなかったのだ。」
I understand the meaning of the sentence but I just wanted a translation so I can grasp proper English words to use with this phrase. Basically his emotions had no space they could "turn around" (maneuver?) in the surrounding area.
「どうしてこんなことが起りうるんだろう、と。」
What word うる at the end of 起り have? He is asking why this could have happened?
「僕には直子の顔を今すぐ思いだすことさえできなのだ。」
Don't know さえ. I understand everything else.