+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Crispy - 2012-05-26
かかずらわる is the same as かかずらう but it's not "proper" usage so should be avoided.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-26
I don't understand the following 3 sentences, can anybody post literal translations?.
1. 私は、もう少し時間をおいてからの方がいいかと思っています。
2. そこらへんは、男の子と女の子とでは違うんだってば。
3. おへそなんてあるはずがないんです。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2012-05-26
Context...?
Let's have a go anyway.
1. 私は、もう少し時間をおいてからの方がいいかと思っています。
I think we should wait a little while longer (before we do whatever..)
時間を置く = take time/pause
2. そこらへんは、男の子と女の子とでは違うんだってば。
(I've told you before,) that's something that's different for boys and girls.
ってば basically shows frustration that they haven't understood you, but context is nice for actually translating it..
3. おへそなんてあるはずがないんです。
There's no way they(context) have a bellybutton. (lol where did you find this??)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-26
1. I don't remember where I got this one from, I just copied it into my notes some time ago.
2. From the built-in dictionary in Midori I think, but it's what you are saying.
3. From a storybook, the story on the あまんじゃく. I thought it was what you said too, really, but I am/was having trouble accepting the randomness of it talking about a belly button. It goes like this:
あまんじゃくと言うのを知っていますか。手も足もない。目も鼻もない。(Which makes total sense and starts getting interesting. Then it slaps you in the face with the following) おへそなんてあるはずがないんです。("there is no way/reason they should have a belly button" what? isn't that a bit of random jump? is any Japanese kid thinking upon reading the start of that story, "hey, but wait a second, what about the belly button? I want to know about the belly button! I demand an explanation concerning the belly button, does it have one or not?).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Teresina - 2012-05-26
yudantaiteki Wrote:What do you mean by "this particular meaning"? The word can mean either completely empty or nearly empty (I think with the "crowded" meaning it's mostly buildings and trains).I meant the empty/nearly empty range of meaning as opposed to the other 3-4 dictionary meanings.
Thank you for clearing the meaning up!
merlin.codex Wrote:@Teresina, you just translate it differently depending on the situation. For example:I see. It was hard to tell from sentences what people meant since even if you say, "This cafe isn't very crowded." I didn't know if they saw only a few people, no people, or the cafe has a medium amount of people but it's not full/crowded.
① お腹がすいている → my stomach's empty
② この店はすいている → this cafe isn't very crowded (although you see other customers, for example)
③ 席がすいてるよ → the seats are (almost) empty
Thank you for the help!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2012-05-26
@turvy
Haha that's a really strange story xD A bit of a jump indeed though I don't see how it could mean anything but that lol!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-26
I think maybe if you take a less literal translation of はず it makes more sense -- it's just trying to be humorous for children. I would go with something like "And of course they don't have a belly button!" or "And there's no way they would have a belly button!" Because belly buttons are funny. I don't think you need to get too caught up on the grammar book definition of はず as requiring some sort of explicit expectation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-26
Well, honestly はず was not the problem here, I just didn't know belly buttons were particularly funny haha
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Ash_S - 2012-05-26
I think I found them funny as a kid x)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sikieiki - 2012-05-27
Ive been thinking about how i-adjectives shouldnt be followed with "da"
Not even sure what the original reason why it isnt allowed is, but still...
Often times I see i-adjective+darou/da to/da ne/da na/da yo and wonder if these are actually grammatically correct.
My guess is that [darou/da to] are fine but the others are not.
Random rant : Stop omitting particles when I am trying to grasp their usage
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-27
sikieiki Wrote:Ive been thinking about how i-adjectives shouldnt be followed with "da"There's no real "reason"; that's just the way the language works. You can't really give a "reason" for that any more than you can give a "reason" why the past tense of an i-adjective is かった. (Probably there's some etymology or historical reason but it's not too important).
Not even sure what the original reason why it isnt allowed is
There's no reason to want to do it -- the i-adjective contains a copula so you don't need to add an extra one.
Quote:Often times I see i-adjective+darou/da to/da ne/da na/da yo and wonder if these are actually grammatically correct.You should not be seeing the last three out of native speakers. だろう is perfectly fine after i-adjectives. だと is a special case; it can follow verbs and i-adjectives if it's the sentence-ending surprise meaning (i.e. やられただと！)
My guess is that [darou/da to] are fine but the others are not.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-27
What's that ending surprise meaning? I can't find it in my Dict. Rikaichan says "if it's the case" but that leaves me in the same place.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-27
It shows surprise.
Literally it's just the copula + quoting と so it's like "You say X!?!?" or "What do you mean X!?!?" I don't think it's usually in dictionaries; it's mostly used in anime/drama anyway.But a few notes:
1) It can be used even when something was not literally said (i.e. やられただと！？ "I got shot down!?")
2) だと has somehow gone beyond its literal grammar and become a fixed element that can be put after any predicate, not just nouns
EDIT: "If it's the case" is different; that's the conditional と which is unrelated here.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-27
A little off-topic, how is it that this is not in the dictionary? I mean, this is not a recent trend, this should be at least in Rikaichan, unless that's the "if that's the case" that Rikaichan is showing.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-27
You'll have to ask the dictionary writers. Either it's too slangy, or they don't feel like it's different enough from just a combination of だ and と to justify its own entry.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sikieiki - 2012-05-27
Thanks for the explanation yuda.
I also want to mention "datte" which I think also is fine with i-adjectives since its main use is as a quoting role. Sometimes I go to speak using darou and datte with an i-adjective and remember that "da" shouldnt come after and wonder if its correct or not. Usually my assumptions are correct but its good to get a second opinion
和気あいあいとした雰囲気なのか申し訳ないけど…
Is there really any meaning to the 何々とした when it seems to be the same meaning without it?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-27
No, だって should not be used after i-adjectives. Just use って alone.
Without what? The とした is necessary or it's not grammatical.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sikieiki - 2012-05-27
yudantaiteki Wrote:No, だって should not be used after i-adjectives. Just use って alone.Assumed wrongly that 和気あいあい was い形
Without what? The とした is necessary or it's not grammatical.
和気あいあいな雰囲気
和気あいあいの雰囲気
和気あいあいとした雰囲気
They all mean the same thing right?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mizunooto - 2012-05-27
When/where do/did they say "おはいおござんす" ? It's in this film, Tokyo Story 東京物語。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitakitsune - 2012-05-27
You would say that in the morning.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-27
This one story I was reading, the main character is always adding じゃないか at the end of sentences. I just want to make sure I am getting it right.
For example:
すると、「ワンワン！」僕のすぐ後ろで、かわいい子犬が、吠えてるじゃないか。
Then, "woof woof", right behind me, (well isn't that) a cute puppy yapping.
It feels like じゃないか is just a self confirmation question like saying "well, isn't this nice?".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - einahpets - 2012-05-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:I just wanted to mention that even though it's not correct grammar, in the part of Nagano-ken I lived in, some people (native Japanese, I mean) would often use だ after i-adj. and other places where it didn't belong. I wouldn't recommend it though, because the impression I got from the teachers I worked with was that it made for a hick/uneducated sounding accent.sikieiki Wrote:Ive been thinking about how i-adjectives shouldnt be followed with "da"There's no real "reason"; that's just the way the language works. You can't really give a "reason" for that any more than you can give a "reason" why the past tense of an i-adjective is かった. (Probably there's some etymology or historical reason but it's not too important).
Not even sure what the original reason why it isnt allowed is
There's no reason to want to do it -- the i-adjective contains a copula so you don't need to add an extra one.
Quote:Often times I see i-adjective+darou/da to/da ne/da na/da yo and wonder if these are actually grammatically correct.You should not be seeing the last three out of native speakers. だろう is perfectly fine after i-adjectives. だと is a special case; it can follow verbs and i-adjectives if it's the sentence-ending surprise meaning (i.e. やられただと！)
My guess is that [darou/da to] are fine but the others are not.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-05-29
Just a quick comprehension question. Is my understanding correct?
その鴉（からす）が人間の言葉を話せたのは、たまたま巣が映画館の軒先にあったことが原因でした。
The cause why this raven could speak the words of humans was, that it occassionally had a nest on the edge of the eaves* of the cinema.
*軒先 "Dachtraufe" in German, but I did not know how to say that in English, so bear with me
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-29
たまたま is "by chance" or "It just happened to have a nest..." たまに is "occasionally".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Nagareboshi - 2012-05-29
Tori-kun Wrote:Just a quick comprehension question. Is my understanding correct?My interpretation:
その鴉（からす）が人間の言葉を話せたのは、たまたま巣が映画館の軒先にあったことが原因でした。
The cause why this raven could speak the words of humans was, that it occassionally had a nest on the edge of the eaves* of the cinema.
*軒先 "Dachtraufe" in German, but I did not know how to say that in English, so bear with me
The cause was that there had been a nest at the eaves of the edge of the movie theater, so that by chance the raven was able to speak the human language.