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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - invirtua - 2012-05-10
i was trying to translate a song and i got stuck at this part: 走る無限きどう
the problem is when i googled the lyrics i found two different coupounds for きどう: 起動 and 棋道, i am not sure which one would be most fitting, here are the translations i ran into
走る無限起動 - a running infinite has started
走る無限軌道 - running in an endless track
走る無限軌道 - an infinite orbit starts to move
here is some context and the song if it helps
君と駆け抜けたい
この世界の果ても
二度と振り返りはしないから
君とならば行ける
走る無限起動
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - qwarten - 2012-05-10
Take my posts with a grain of salt, I'm not a native speaker of either languages and my japanese is not good.
軌道 in my opinion makes more sense in this context. Since in the first part it talks about going past the end/edge of this world, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to translate it like this imo:
If it is with you I can/would go on a journey (figurative) that runs infinitely (with no end in sight).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-10
vix86 Wrote:This is actually a reverse phrase question.I would say either the slight nod/bow, or いえいえ. いえいえ and どうも are two of the most important things in Japanese -- いえいえ for any situation where you're being complimented or thanked, and どうも for anything else. (There are often better things to say than these two, but if you aren't sure what to say, one of those two phrases will often be at least acceptable, even if not the best.)
When you give someone omiyage/food and they say ごちそうさま. What do you reply in response usually? Co-worker relation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Inny Jan - 2012-05-10
yudantaiteki Wrote:How about "お粗末さま"?vix86 Wrote:This is actually a reverse phrase question.I would say either the slight nod/bow, or いえいえ. いえいえ and どうも are two of the most important things in Japanese -- いえいえ for any situation where you're being complimented or thanked, and どうも for anything else. (There are often better things to say than these two, but if you aren't sure what to say, one of those two phrases will often be at least acceptable, even if not the best.)
When you give someone omiyage/food and they say ごちそうさま. What do you reply in response usually? Co-worker relation.
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%8A%E7%B2%97%E6%9C%AB%E3%81%95%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F
"あまり大したものを供さなかった、という意味の表現。主に「ごちそうさま」に対する応答として用いられる。"
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - partner55083777 - 2012-05-10
Inny Jan Wrote:How about "お粗末さま"?I've only ever heard old people use this. It might be good as a joke, or to lighten up the mood, but I've never heard a young Japanese person use this.
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%8A%E7%B2%97%E6%9C%AB%E3%81%95%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F
"あまり大したものを供さなかった、という意味の表現。主に「ごちそうさま」に対する応答として用いられる。"
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kainzero - 2012-05-10
from this jlpt1 study book...
多くの企業はCS推進部を設置してこの流行に乗り遅れまいとしたものだ。
what does the underlined part mean?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-05-10
something like:
tried not to be left behind
tried not to miss the boat (figuratively)
遅れまい negative volitional. ie. negative version of 遅れよう
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kainzero - 2012-05-10
ah, so...
まい - negative volitional
とする - attempt
ものだ - author's hunch/etc.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Inny Jan - 2012-05-10
partner55083777 Wrote:Not that I want to argue with what you say but here you have "おそまつさまでした" being used.Inny Jan Wrote:How about "お粗末さま"?I've only ever heard old people use this. It might be good as a joke, or to lighten up the mood, but I've never heard a young Japanese person use this.
http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%8A%E7%B2%97%E6%9C%AB%E3%81%95%E3%81%BE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F
"あまり大したものを供さなかった、という意味の表現。主に「ごちそうさま」に対する応答として用いられる。"
｢お待たせしました、竹の花ケーキです｣
｢わーい、大好物ね(もぐもぐ｣
｢･･･いかがですか？｣
｢うん、おいしかった。ごちそーさまー｣
｢おそまつさまでした｣
Edit: Unfortunately, I can't count myself as a "young person" so "おそまつさまでした" may suit me.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-10
Servants/maids may use more archaic or formal language than most people -- also anything anime isn't usually a good place to judge actual language use.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Inny Jan - 2012-05-10
yudantaiteki Wrote:Servants/maids may use more archaic or formal language than most people -- also anything anime isn't usually a good place to judge actual language use.Just asked my Japanese colleague for this ごちそうさまでした/おそまつさまでした and his comments were like:
1. おそまつさまでした is a humble language (kenjōgo) - you are lowering your efforts
2. おそまつさまでした is not used between peers in workplace
3. It can be used by mother (or whoever is serving a meal) in response to child's ごちそうさまでした
4. When you don't use kenjōgo, in response to ごちそうさま, you can say どうだった？
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-05-10
without wishing to sound more of a **** than I normally do native Japanese often get these things wrong when you ask them or answer in a way to make you feel happy. The japanese are know for their humility and often don't show the full extent of their knowledge.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-05-10
HonyakuJoshua Wrote:without wishing to sound more of a **** than I normally do native Japanese often get these things wrong when you ask them or answer in a way to make you feel happy. The japanese are know for their humility and often don't show the full extent of their knowledge.Uhh, while this is sometimes true, it certainly doesn't apply here.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-05-10
yeah, I know I am just saying " a native speakers says its x so it must be x" is a fallacy.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-11
Today I observed two women in their early 20's, one gave some cake to another one. In response to ごちそうさまでした, the giver said いえいえ.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-05-11
Inny Jan Wrote:Just asked my Japanese colleague for this ごちそうさまでした/おそまつさまでした and his comments were like:I also asked a Japanese college girl I was hanging out with about this and said that she's rarely heard おそまつさまでした as a response to ごちそうさまでした. When she thinks of そまつ, she said the most common contexts are "Don't play with your food" 食べ物はそまつにするな and as a way to present omiyage/gifts 粗末なものですけど.
1. おそまつさまでした is a humble language (kenjōgo) - you are lowering your efforts
2. おそまつさまでした is not used between peers in workplace
3. It can be used by mother (or whoever is serving a meal) in response to child's ごちそうさまでした
4. When you don't use kenjōgo, in response to ごちそうさま, you can say どうだった？
She said that you could use どういたしまして as a response to ごちそうさまでした if you wanted to sound quite polite in your response (this would only happen in contexts when you give someone a food as a gift, not when you eat together).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-13
A little problem reading instructions in the current textbook I am using. Random samples follow:
絵を見ながらCDを聞きましょう。
However other parts are like this:
まず全体を聞きます。
*If it means to say "First listen to everything." then shouldn't it be 聞いてください?
*However if I translate it like "First, you will listen to everything." isn't that strange?.
*Why 聞きます and not 聞きましょう or 聞いてください?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vix86 - 2012-05-13
In the process of trying to create actual sentences for some of the words that I have been sentence mining that aren't easy to find (got plenty of "phrasal chunks" already).
選手は勝敗の埒外に出ていた.
I've translated this as "The athlete left the match bounds." but I'm not sure if "The athlete was leaving the match bounds." The typical problem with ＋ている. I have it as the former at the moment. Which is it though?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-13
The former I think. The athlete left rather than was leaving.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-05-13
Yeah, must be the former. I'm pretty sure that 出る, much like other motion verbs such as 来る, are either on or off. (I.e., 来ている never means 'is coming', it only means 'has arrived.' 出ている, I believe, never means 'is exiting; is leaving', it only means 'has exited; has left.')
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-05-13
turvy Wrote:A little problem reading instructions in the current textbook I am using. Random samples follow:Without more context it's hard to be sure, but it makes sense to me if you think of it as "First, you will hear the whole thing." That is, it may not be an instruction; rather, it may be a description of what will happen if you play the CD.
絵を見ながらCDを聞きましょう。
However other parts are like this:
まず全体を聞きます。
*If it means to say "First listen to everything." then shouldn't it be 聞いてください?
*However if I translate it like "First, you will listen to everything." isn't that strange?.
*Why 聞きます and not 聞きましょう or 聞いてください?
By the way, in my Japanese cookbooks, they don't use the command form, they use the plain present tense. (えびにころもの材料を加えて手でよく混ぜ合わせる -- add the coating ingredients to the shrimp and mix together thoroughly with your hands.) I don't know if there's a grammatical reason for this. You could interpret it as saying not "You do this!" but "This is what a generic person will do in order to make shrimp with chili sauce." I think it's pretty common in instructional texts because even てください is kind of ordering people around.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-14
turvy Wrote:*If it means to say "First listen to everything." then shouldn't it be 聞いてください?ましょう is common as a softer version of a command, especially in instructions or from teachers. I can imagine a teacher in the US saying "OK, let's open our books to page 34..."
Even the use of the imperative form in instructions is English is something of a convention -- the book (or the writer) is not literally commanding you do to those things, it's just the way we present instructions.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-05-14
Let me post another example:
1. かの最初にあるストーリーピクチャーを見て、どんな内容かを考えましょう。
2. 会話では、CDを聞いて、大体の内容をつかみましょう。
3. 「ナレーション」では：
（A）まずCDを聞きながら、目で読みます。
（B）それからCDといっしょにリピートします。
...
It's clear that 1 and 2 are instructions. As for A and B I take it as an "instruction" as well but I don't understand conjugation.
?? (A) First, while listening to the CD, (you?) will with (your eyes).
?? (B) Then, (you?) will repeat along with the CD.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-14
This is usually where I just shrug and move on, but maybe someone else can explain it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-05-14
(A) is "First, while listening to the CD, read silently along."
Literally it's "read with your eyes", but it's in contrast to repeating aloud--to read silently.
You understand the meaning already anyway, so you just need to accept that sometimes ましょう and sometimes just plain form (like the cookbook mentioned) or ます form (as seen in a and b) can be used to express instructions. The ましょう form is especially commonly used by teachers.
You'll gradually just get used to this. There's no real reason to think too much into it.