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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-26
But what does なんている mean?. What is なんて followed by いる?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - IceCream - 2012-04-26
it's because you're parsing it wrong that you're finding it difficult.
Don't think of it like 「なんている」, think of it like 「悪い人なんて」 「いるはずない」.
Magamo wrote this above, but maybe you missed it? It's at the end of his long post...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - IceCream - 2012-04-26
時間にしても、3分と無い
does this mean something like they didn't take more than 3 minutes over it?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-26
@IceCream makes sense now.
More-->
ごめん。聞いちゃいけなかった？
[Sorry, I shouldn't have asked?]
うん、変に気を使われるより、そうやってさくって聞かれるほうがいい。
[It's better to be asked that directly than for others to be too careful around me.]
That's the translation I get in the English subtitles, but could anybody give me a more literal translation of the second sentence and explain what そうやってさくって means?
Another one -->
子供の頃は気にもしていなかったけど,
[When I was young, I didn't really think about it but,]
気にしていなかった
I wasn't minding/caring -> I didn't mind/care (Thanks to the illogical magic of いる).
Now, I know from context the translation is correct, because the person is not saying "I also didn't think about it", so what is も doing there?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - thurd - 2012-04-27
Found in definition of 防護 on Goo:
危害の及ぶのを防ぎ守ること。
I'm confused with 防ぎ守る, first verb already has the meaning of protect so 守る seems unnecessary. It would make more sense as prevent+protect but I think 及ぶ already has that "prevent" covered...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Rayath - 2012-04-27
thurd Wrote:Found in definition of 防護 on Goo:If you look up 防ぐ and 守る in Daijisen you will see that 防ぐ is concentrating more on the damaging side, "blocking" or "preventing" it, and 守る is focused more on the damaged side, "defending" it. But still you will see that 防ぐ is contained in the definition of 守る. I think that the fact that you can't find 防ぎ守る in 大辞泉 or 大辞林 tells us that it's not really a specific verb. That kind of verbs are used in definitions in dictionaries to give a more detailed insight into the meaning of the defined word I think. It's a process of joining up two pretty similar verbs but maybe with a slightly different nuance to draw a more precise picture in our minds. If you want to translate 防ぎ守る, the term would come either from 防ぐ or 守る, depending on which is more suited for the whole sentence. So like "protect against" or "prevent".
危害の及ぶのを防ぎ守ること。
I'm confused with 防ぎ守る, first verb already has the meaning of protect so 守る seems unnecessary. It would make more sense as prevent+protect but I think 及ぶ already has that "prevent" covered...
And "及ぶ" just means "receiving" in this sentence, just like for example with a transitive equivalent, "被害を及ぼす" would mean "do the damage".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - magamo - 2012-04-27
IceCream Wrote:時間にしても、3分と無いIf the context is like how short it took someone to do something, probably yes.
does this mean something like they didn't take more than 3 minutes over it?
〜にして can be used to introduce a clause or sentence about the quantity or amount of something. It's like a seque-ish adverb or adverbial phrase that works kind of like "X-wise," "in terms of X," etc. For example, 時間にして in 時間にして3分です is there to naturally introduce the following sentence "it's 3 minutes long" by adding the sense of "If we talk about how long it is in terms of the period of time."
It works best if you use it right after you talk about the length and such in a vague or indirect way. For instance, you're talking about a Japanese novella you like, and you say,
すごく短いから、一日二日で読めるよ。ページ数にして、50ページぐらいしかない。
It's very short so you can read it in a day or two. It's only about 50 pages long.
So, what the phrase does is simply indicate what kind of quantity or amount you're going to use in the following part so that the sentence flows better.
You can add も just like you do to many other usual clauses. If you say ページ数にしても in the above example, it doesn't change the overall meaning except certain emphasis is placed so it gets a slight "even (if)" sense. It's like, it's short, it'll take you only a day or two to finish, and if you wanna know exactly how long it is, it's only 50 pages long. This "and if wannat know exactly how long it is" is the ページ数にしても. You're kind of implying, "Even if you count the number of pages, it's actually short," though it gives this kind of sense only very slightly.
If you got confused by と in 3分と無い, it's like an emphasized negation, e.g., このままでは5分と持たない means that it won't last 5 minutes unless you do something and that the possible upper limite "5 minutes" is already considered (very) short.
I'm guessing the context you took your example from is like the speaker was talking about something that is considered short in terms of the period of time. And he proceeds, "3分と無い = it's only 3 minutes or shorter."
Anyway, 時間にしても、3分と無い probably means that they didn't take more than 3 minutes over it if it fits the context. And the situation is probably that 3 minutes is considered short because of the use of と＋ない. And because there is も there, probably the preceding sentences implied it's short without using actual quantities like seconds and hours. Or maybe the speaker is talking about something that is naturally short in terms of time.
turvy Wrote:ごめん。聞いちゃいけなかった？そうやってさくって is parsed as そうやって + さくって. As you probably already know, そうやって means something like "like that." さくって is an adverb that can describe various kinds of things from action to movement to taste. You can't really get its "literal translation" because English has only few mimetic words. It's an example of the Japanese sound symbolism, and it's not onomatopoeia. If by "literal" you mean the translation given by a pocket dictionary, I doubt your average J-E dictionary has it as a headword. The largest and most comprehensive J-E dictionary (the Green Goddess) has さくっ as in さくっとした食感, which they translate as "a crisp bite," "a crunchy bite," "crispness," "crunchiness." Note that while the Japanese version is written with multiple parts (さくっと+した+食感) for translation purpose, you can't do the literal translation thing you might want to do because the whole phrase means "crunchiness" so you can't separate it like "crun = さくっと, chi = した, ness = 食感." Also, if you're thinking it's rare so it's not in a dictionary, it's not. It's a very common word every native speaker understands from kids to adults.
[Sorry, I shouldn't have asked?]
うん、変に気を使われるより、そうやってさくって聞かれるほうがいい。
[It's better to be asked that directly than for others to be too careful around me.]
That's the translation I get in the English subtitles, but could anybody give me a more literal translation of the second sentence and explain what そうやってさくって means?
So, when describing an action, generally さくっ describes how it's done swiftly, smoothly, easily, without hesitation, and so on. さくっと and さくって are pretty much the same, and I don't think the difference matters in "literal" translation anyway. Both are adverbs. If it helps, the latter sounds more informal and coloquial, though さくっと is already not formal.
The translation you have there is pretty much as literal as it can get. If you're not satisfied with that, maybe you can explicitly translate そうやって. I don't know the exact context, but it probably refers to either the WAY you asked that or simultaneously how you always behave and how you asked that. In any case, maybe you can literal-translate the sentence as
I like it better when you're frank like when you asked me that than when people are careful around me.
This may sound kind of awkward, but I guess I got it very literal, whatever that means.
turvy Wrote:子供の頃は気にもしていなかったけど,It's the same kind of も that occurs with negation like ない in the middle of a verb or verb-ish phrase as in 予想もしない (in the middle of 予想する with ない) and 働きもしない (in the middle of 働く with ない). A decent textbook should explain this and similar も in great detail. Its function is to shift your focus to the root or the meaningful part of the verb or verb-ish phrase, so that the following ない can strongly and directly negate it. Some say it's kind of like "even." For example, 予想も出来ないようなことが起こった roughly means that something no one expected has happened. If you want an example using the exact same wording as your example,
[When I was young, I didn't really think about it but,]
気にしていなかった
I wasn't minding/caring -> I didn't mind/care (Thanks to the illogical magic of いる).
Now, I know from context the translation is correct, because the person is not saying "I also didn't think about it", so what is も doing there?
子供の頃は気にもしていなかったけど、僕と彼女は肌の色が違っていて、それを快く思わない人もいるんだ。
I didn't even know it was a problem at all when I was a kid, but her skin color is different than mine, and some people don't like it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - IceCream - 2012-04-27
thanks!! yeah, it was the ３分と無い bit...
and yeah, it does fit the context, thanks...
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-27
Thanks @magamo, I appreciate your translations, I was hoping for a little bit (euphemism for a lot) more of "describes how it's done swiftly, smoothly, easily, without hesitation" which is what was actually helpful.
This one is from a song:
抱きしめた 心の小宇宙(コスモ)
熱く燃やせ 奇跡を起こせ
傷ついたままじゃいないと
誓いあった 遥かな銀河
I'm having trouble with まま, じゃいない and that と and the end which is the conditional と (right?) left out just like that.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-27
じゃいない is a contraction of では + いない (I'm hurrying out the door so I'll let someone else explain this grammar). まま should be in a dictionary:
儘 まま 1: (Usually written using kana alone) as it is; as one likes; because; as;
2: condition; state
(2 here)
EDIT: As for the と, I'm really not sure; I'm not very good with song lyrics. The conditional と seems unlikely to me -- I want this to be quotative connecting to 誓い but then I feel like it should be との誓い; it may very well just be a quotative と with an understood 思って or 言って after it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-04-27
IceCream Wrote:i think it's just a typo... should just be 聴いたことのない人.thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kudokupo - 2012-04-28
不思議とか神秘とかそんな非常識はまるっきり認めない人種で、まか不思議な出来事が彼らの周辺で起こるなんて、とうてい考えられなかった。
I understand this but I was just confused about what で is doing in the part「まるっきり認めない人種で」. It sounds right, but can anyone explain?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-04-28
kudokupo Wrote:I understand this but I was just confused about what で is doing in the part「まるっきり認めない人種で」. It sounds right, but can anyone explain?pretty sure its the conjunctive of desu, de. it means and
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - IceCream - 2012-04-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:EDIT: As for the と, I'm really not sure; I'm not very good with song lyrics. The conditional と seems unlikely to me -- I want this to be quotative connecting to 誓い but then I feel like it should be との誓い; it may very well just be a quotative と with an understood 思って or 言って after it.it is the quotative と。 Yudan was in a rush earlier, so i guess he missed it, but it's 誓い合う, so と誓い合った is fine... it's the verb form, not the noun.
@kudokupo: Yudan explained this really nicely to me a while back, but i can't remember where the post was, sorry!!
「まるっきり認めない人種で」 anyway, yeah, think of で like it's the て form of だ. It solves a ton of で problems all over the place!! But rather than thinking of it just like "and", it's more like it indicates a realized state, just like the rest of the て forms. So here, it could be translated as something more like "given that they were the type of people who...etc."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Soggycake - 2012-04-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:If you are using RTK 1, put in the keyword from the book. Otherwise you should be putting words (sentences, really) into anki, not "meanings" of stand alone characters (I'm assuming you're not intending this to be the word あだ, since that's a relatively uncommon word).Yeah, I don't use RTK, just the method. But I forgot about referencing the keyword, even though I browse this forum often lol. I figured something out though, thanks.
Anyway, on another subject, I've been reading a bit of the ナウシカ漫画 and stumbled upon a few Kanji that that are difficult for me to differentiate: 蟲、虫 and 昆虫. I assume they all mean insect, but how are they different?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-30
In this simple sentence: その宿題をさくっと終わらせた
終わる is intransitive so I guess this means "I made the homework finish". I just had this realization and I think it makes sense, but am I correct?
Also, the さくっと adds the nuance that it was finished quickly like in a lickety-split.
"I had my homework done in a flash."
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2012-04-30
Yes, it is the "I finished." Or rather, "I made the homework finish."
終わる is intransitive; 終える or 終わらせる would be the words you want to use.
In English you might way you "walked your dog," but you can't say that you 犬を歩いた in Japanese. It's the same thing with the 宿題.
edit: you already figured it out :/
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-30
For example: 友達の犬を歩かせた。Right?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-30
That's not really the best example because the normal way to say "walk a dog" is 犬を散歩する (although I do see that 犬を歩かせる seems to be a valid phrase as well.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-30
はい、友達の犬を散歩させた
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-30
Actually you just use する for that, not させる. Isn't Japanese fun?
(EDIT: Actually from google it seems that both are valid...isn't Japanese fun?
Although the させる version is nowhere near as common, it seems.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-30
hahaha 笑
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - haplology - 2012-05-02
Had a quick question.
When writing in the format of "first of all… second of all… and last…", what would be the correct way to do that? Just something easy like:
色々なことを話し合いました。first of all…
(no idea if the beginning part is grammatically correct - just tried to think of something where I'd use it)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - apirx - 2012-05-03
Easy question:
Got this from nico nico: 踊ってみたの祭典 ダンマス4☆踊り手募集中
is 募集中 read as ぼしゅうちゅう or is it ぼしゅう and なか, as in "we are currently (in the process of) recruiting"? Thanks.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-05-03
ぼしゅうちゅう; it's a common phrase to mean "help wanted" or "looking for..." The 中 is a standard suffix meaning "currently..." as in 準備中 on the front of a restaurant, or 故障中 on a broken photocopier. It's always pronounced ちゅう in this case.