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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-24

You should always be prepared to learn phrases and not just single words, since there are many cases where the natural Japanese phrase does not match up one-to-one with the grammar and vocabulary of the English phrase. This is particularly true with particles, which tend to have a lot of meanings.

A rule like "を marks the direct object" can be a good starting place, as long as you remember that this does *not* mean "Any time there is a direct object in English, I can construct a natural Japanese phrase using を", or "Any を in Japanese can be translated into English as a direct object."

So in this case, there's nothing wrong with just learning 質問に答える as a phrase. Obviously you want to have some general understanding of the particles, but you should not feel like you must be able to understand or explain why this specific particle is used here. The same goes for "What's the difference between X and Y" or "Why did they use X here instead of Y" -- sometimes the answer to these questions is simple, other times it's fearsomely complicated. But it's not necessary to be able to answer these questions to understand the Japanese.

EDIT: Also, you might be tempted to think "Well, 'answer a question' is a really basic phrase so if I can't explain に even for this simple statement, that's a problem." But you should not think this. The simplicity or complexity of a concept has very little to do with how easily a foreign learner can understand the grammar that expresses the concept. It also is not the case that the more frequent a phrase is, the easier the grammar is to understand for a foreign learner -- there is no relationship here either.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-04-24

Somehow, my textbooks fail to explain the proper and accurate difference between ～向けの、～向き、～のため（に・の）.. I know what they mean, if I read them I understand "the Japanese" as yudantaiteki put it. However, when it comes down to say/write things on my own, I struggle..

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-04-24

〜向けの comes from 向ける, make something face (direct something at) something (transitive). AがXをYに向ける A makes X face Y.

eg.
子供向けの > made for children ((transitively) directed at children)
子供向けのゲーム a game made for children.

〜向き comes from 向く, face (intransitive). AがBを向く > A faces towards B
so 向き is a noun meaning "facing", "direction", "trend" etc.

eg.
海向き
ホテル a hotel facing the ocean.

〜のために, for ~, because of ~, due to ~, in order to ~
This makes an adverb that affects the verb (ie. describes the 'manner' in which the action occurs).

〜のための, attaches to and describes a noun phrase.　AのためのB, an A for B

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kame3 - 2012-04-24

From Death Note Anime:
立続けに受刑者が心臓麻痺で亡くなるという、異例の事態を受け…

I'm especially wondering about the last part. Is meant that prisoners dying from a heart attack is unusual? Or does it imply that the number of victims is extraordinary, considering the 立続けに at the beginning of the sentence? What does the 受けhere mean?

And while I'm at it: すごいよな、悪人がバンバンしびてんじゃん
What does バンバンしびて mean?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2012-04-24

nadiatims Wrote:〜向き comes from 向く, face (intransitive). AがBを向く > A faces towards B
so 向き is a noun meaning "facing", "direction", "trend" etc.
It can also mean "suitable for", eg この辺りは若者向きの店ご多い。The difference from the 子供向け example is that 向け implies deliberately "aimed at, designed for" and this doesn't (as you might guess given that one is from the transitive and one from the intransitive verb).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SomeCallMeChris - 2012-04-24

kame3 Wrote:From Death Note Anime:
I'm not sure exactly which conversation that is you're quoting, but in those early episodes, yes, the remarkable thing is that prisoners keeping dying one after the other, which is what 立ち続け means. I'm not sure about the 受け exactly in the isolated sentence, though I'm sure it makes sense in context.

I'm pretty sure the other line is just contracted speech essentially meaning
悪人　が　バンバン　死　は 美点 じゃ ない　か
from the onomatopoeia バンバン ('bang-bang-bang', could be taken as the simple sound of them falling over in succession or the meaning of 'like mad' 'like wildfire', or both).

Maybe the し comes from する and it's a little more indirect than that, I'm not quite certain, but I doubt it has anything to do with chicken...

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SammyB - 2012-04-24

From Core6000:

なるべく早く仕事を終わらせてください。

When I saw this I thought it would mean:

please let me finish this work as quickly as possible.

However the translation is:

Please complete your work as early as possible.

I thought that passive +ください was a set construction meaning "allow me to..." e.g. 払わせてください - let me pay... ?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - blackbrich - 2012-04-24

Thats not passive its causative I'm think.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitakitsune - 2012-04-24

Core is wrong.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-04-24

I think Core is right. Can't 終わらせて　mean "cause to おわる, bring to a close"?

不毛な恋を終わらせて最高の結婚相手を手に入れる方法 (book title on Amazon)

"How to cause sterile love to end and find the perfect marriage partner"

Ｆｅｄを終わらせてください!

End the Fed!

まだまだ海で遊びます！その前に宿題を終わらせて

You can still play in the ocean! But first finish your homework.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-24

From ADoBJG p487:

(d) 友達が今日来るということをすっかり忘れていた。
I completely forgot the fact that my friend is coming today.

I went through the paper Nagareboshi recommended but I am still puzzled as to how the meaning changes if I were to use 忘れている instead of 忘れていた in this case. And what about 忘れた?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - vix86 - 2012-04-25

This is out of the DOBJG.
Am I wrong for believing this sentence is a bit ambiguous?
お父さんが医者の学生は三人います。
Its a relative clause pattern, but when I first read it I had been sure it was:
"[My] father has three students who are students."

DOBJG says its:
"There are three students whose fathers are doctors."

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-04-25

vix86 Wrote:This is out of the DOBJG.
Am I wrong for believing this sentence is a bit ambiguous?
お父さんが医者の学生は三人います。
Its a relative clause pattern, but when I first read it I had been sure it was:
"[My] father has three students who are students."
I assume you mean "My father has three students who are doctors" or something like that. Seems to me though that the topic/subject relationship is wrong for that interpretation. Wouldn't the father be the topic in that case, and therefore marked by は (probably: お父さんは医者の学生が三人います)?

That's how it seems to me anyway.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-25

Yeah, that's it -- with the は and が placed where they are, the sentence is not ambiguous. It can't mean that your father has the students.

turvy Wrote:From ADoBJG p487:

(d) 友達が今日来るということをすっかり忘れていた。
I completely forgot the fact that my friend is coming today.

I went through the paper Nagareboshi recommended but I am still puzzled as to how the meaning changes if I were to use 忘れている instead of 忘れていた in this case. And what about 忘れた?
忘れている doesn't work because that means you still forget it, which obviously isn't true since you just said what it was that you forgot. I'm a little unclear on when 忘れている actually is used -- there are a lot of google hits but I'm having trouble seeing a clear pattern.

忘れた vs. 忘れていた is tougher; I tried to explain it but it was coming out muddled so I hope someone else can step in. As I said before, ている forms tend to mean some sort of continuing effect (in this case, an effect of the forgetting).

(This shows up in the 101 or 102 class I taught and I always dreaded having the students ask why the dialogue had 忘れてた instead of 忘れた; I was never certain my explanation was good.)

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-25

そんなのかぶってていじめとかあわないかな。

Won't you get bullied wearing such thing?

I get it, but I just want to make sure about a few things.

1) What is かぶってて? What is the extra て there and what does it mean? Is it the て form of いる again? or is it maybe an input mistake and it's actually the casual topic marker って?

2) What is the purpose of の after そんな.

3) What is this usage of とか? Is it by any chance like なんか?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SammyB - 2012-04-25

blackbrich Wrote:Thats not passive its causative I'm think.
Sorry, just a typo... I meant causative + てください

@ Fillanzea

In "the wisdom" I found: "Ａ＜事＞を終わらせる - bring A to and end"

But is there any difference in meaning between 宿題を終わって下さい and 宿題を終わらせて下さい?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-04-25

turvy Wrote:そんなのかぶってていじめとかあわないかな。

Won't you get bullied wearing such thing?

I get it, but I just want to make sure about 2 things.

1) What is かぶってて? What is the extra て there and what does it mean? Is it the て form of いる again? or is it maybe an input mistake and it's actually the casual topic marker って?
2) What is the purpose of の after そんな.
の is just a noun placeholder. In English it would basically be 'thing' here. そんなの="That kind of thing."

Yeah, かぶってて is from かぶっていて, the て form of いる. かぶる is basically 'put on' a hat, so かぶっている is 'wear(ing)' a hat. So, it makes the beginning "If you wear that kind of thing (on your head)..."

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - SammyB - 2012-04-25

turvy Wrote:そんなのかぶってていじめとかあわないかな。

Won't you get bullied wearing such thing?

1) What is かぶってて? What is the extra て there and what does it mean? Is it the て form of いる again? or is it maybe an input mistake and it's actually the casual topic marker って?

2) What is the purpose of の after そんな.

3) What is this usage of とか? Is it by any chance like なんか?
1) Yes. かぶっていて as Tzadeck explained.

2) I think this kind of の functions as a pronoun to replace a noun that is already understood, in this case the hat or object that is being worn.

eg. 赤い車を買いに行ったけど、赤いのがありませんでした。

I went to buy a red car, but there were no red ones.

3. とか gives the meaning "such as", or "things like..." It is replacing が here. You should be able to look this up pretty easily...

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-25

Well, I tried looking up とか in the DoBJG but it described the とか used for listing things not the one you are mentioning which is what I thought really (but that I still can't find in the dictionary).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-04-25

By the way, talking about とか, lately I heard it gets colloquially abused instead of ～や～など... Can anyone evaluate on that?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-25

I don't think it's "abused" -- what's wrong with that use?

Quote:Well, I tried looking up とか in the DoBJG but it described the とか used for listing things not the one you are mentioning
That's basically the same as here -- it's used like など or なんか (as you indicated in your question). It literally means "bullying, or something like that", but it just serves to soften the word -- it's a common use and maybe it doesn't always have a deep meaning.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-25

Thank goodness it doesn't have a deep meaning (this time).

引っ越したばっかりで。
I just moved (here).

What's で doing at the end of the sentence?.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-04-25

If that's a standalone sentence it's probably a typo for です or だ -- it's possible the person meant it to be an incomplete sentence but then they should really use ... at the end instead of a period to make that clearer.

If there's some context then it's a common use of trailing off after a -te form, "I just moved here, so....[I need help]" for instance.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-04-25

it's the so called 'て form' of です・である. It leaves the sentence hanging, implying something unsaid (blah blah...). Or it's said after another sentence as an after thought.
eg.
道はわからない。ここに引っ越したばっかりで。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-04-25

It's from a drama. I just played the scene again and the girl says で at the end.

After that she says:

いろいろ探索しようと思ってるうちに、急に雨が。

And there is that other が finishing the sentence to screw me a little bit more…